Kundalini Real or Hoax ?

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by IndianCurry2010, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. IndianCurry2010 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    87
    OK heres another one i read alot about Kundalini.

    "Traditionally, it is believed that after being awakened, Kundalini will be able to remove the knots of the major chakras, cleanse, open and develop the chakras until they are fully developed into full-blooming lotus forms. By the time the Kundalini finishes opening, cleansing and developing all of the chakras, the core of the Kundalini will reach the crown chakra, the chakra at the top of the head. This is the time you attain the highest spiritual achievement"

    Some say when Kundalini arises warriors become super warriors and can achieve super human feats. Now lets look at this from a scientific perspective how much truth is there in this ?

    Someone i know went to a kundalini seminar and he said that the instructor made heat come out of his hands and he could feel the heat on his face ??

    Some kundalini coaches claim to use the energy to push people over..i am sorry i am not buying that.

    What are your thoughts ?
     
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  3. Guru Registered Senior Member

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    From what I understand is Kundalini awakening makes you aware of your physical body's full potential. You can control all functions of your body including the involuntary functions. It cannot give your a super human strength. If there is a way your body can transfer energy thru air to knock someone over then it will come to you after Kundalini awakening. There are people who can remote view, have stopped eating as they can draw energy from the air and moisture from air. Also once you achieve the Kundalini Awakening then the need to perform physical feat to prove becomes a moot point as the person has graduated to a different level of ego which we cannot define or imagine.
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    This is more like Eastern mysticism than Eastern Philosophy. But maybe that's what this subforum is here for.

    If I may inject a bit of scientific realism for a moment, let me just say that there is no evidence that "chakras" exist at all, and thus the same goes for Kundalini.

    Ah, science! Ok.

    Where are these "superhuman feats" documented? Who witnessed them? Who recorded them? How reliable are the accounts?

    I can do that. I rub my hands together for a while and they get warm. It's called "friction".

    I can use energy to push people over. I put out my arms and give them a good hard shove, and over they go!

    That's a contradiction in terms. Functions that can be controlled voluntarily aren't really involuntary, are they? Examples?

    There's no good evidence for remote viewing.

    As for living without food for extended periods, nobody has ever done it under controlled conditions. People who claim they can live without food are invariably caught having the odd snack (or three-course meal) on the sly.

    If we can't imagine or define it, what makes you think it is a "graduation"? Why couldn't it be a worse level of ego?
     
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  7. woowoo Registered Senior Member

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    The Chakras and subtle body can be mapped to the physical body. this is
    described in the following book:

    Kundalini - the serpent power, the physical basis of Kundalini(Hatha Yoga)
    in terms of Western anatomy and physiology. Vassant G. Rele 1926.
    ISBN 81-292-0026-0 Indigo Books, New Delhi 2003.

    Vassant was a British medical doctor in India during the early part of the
    20th century. He was fascinated by some of the miraculous powers
    of Hindu yogis and holy men, such as stoping pulse and respiration, surviving
    being buried alive for long periods and feats of strength such as breaking
    chains.

    His study of yoga and physiology concluded:

    "....the physical practices of Kundalini-Yoga are for the development
    of control over the autonomic nervous system over which we normally
    have no control. The six Chakras in the Yogic literature, which when
    controlled give wonderful powers to a Yogi, are simply
    the six important plexuses of the sympathetic portion of the
    autonomic nervous system; and the Shakti power of Kundalini, which
    pierces these Chakras, i.e., forms connections with them, is according
    to my version of it, the vagus nerve in the body. Normally Kundalini
    does her usual work unconsciously and is said to be lying dormant within
    us, and to establish conscious control over this Kundalini is an important
    step in the achievement of Yoga.

    By constant practice of Pranayama, with Asana Bandha and Mudra, Kundualini
    is roused from her sleep and brought under control of the will. When
    this Kundalini is roused from her sleep, she forces a passage through
    the different Chakras and excites them to action, and as she rises step
    by step the mind becomes opened and all vision and wonderful powers come to
    a Yogi when she reaches the brain. The Yogi then becomes perfectly detached
    from the body and the mind; and the soul finds itself free in every respect.

    All the miracles of a Yogi such as stoping the beats of the heart and
    pulse etc., can be explained by conscious control over Kundalini.

    I would, therefore define Kundalini Yoga as a science of physical and
    mental exercises of a particular form by which an individual establishes
    conscious control over his autonomic nervous system so as to get
    in tune with the Infinite."

    OM
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    30,940
    At random - sort of like the Chi "meridians" used in acupuncture.

    What are these six important "plexuses"? Is that standard in scientific medicine?

    How can we measure all that scientifically?

    Where's the science, though?

    I see a lot of mystical mumbo-jumbo, but not a lot of controlled scientific studies here.
     
  9. woowoo Registered Senior Member

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    232
    "mumbo-jumbo" is your own ignorance.
     
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,940
    Perhaps you can help cure my ignorance by answering the questions I've asked above, woowoo. I look forward to the enlightenment that a Kundalini master like yourself is sure to provide.
     
  11. IndianCurry2010 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    87
    ok dont take this the wrong way a friend of mine yesterday demonstrated how he could stop his pulse. I put out his wrist and i felt his pulse then a few minutes later he asked me to repeat this. It appeared that he had stopped his pulse i though wow how did you do that

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    .

    He confessed he had placed a tennis ball underneath his armpit and squeezed it to temporarily stop blood flow whilst i tested his pulse thats why it appeared like his pulse had gone dead.

    So yes i am looking for scientific facts that will motivate me to believe that i can gain something from going to a kundalini seminar which i would have to pay 200 bucks for !
     
  12. woowoo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    232


    There is a considerable amount to science to consider given
    the complexity of human anatomy, however no amount of science
    is going to convince anyone who is not at least open to the
    possibility that there may be some truth in this. As you are paying
    200 dollars for a seminar then i assume you are more open
    than most. The ever present danger of charlatens and frauds is
    a concern for everyone, ultimately we have to make up
    our minds about the quality of the data rather than take it
    as given, a seminar seems an entirely reasonable way to begin.

    The work by V. G. Rele that I have quoted is based on physical
    examinations including X-ray by the author and other qualified
    physicians on a practicing Kundalini Yogi under controlled
    conditions in India, the Yogi was a man by the name of Deshbandhu.

    The main thesis behind the work is that using his breath, Prana,
    the Yogi was able to control involuntary muscles such as the heart,
    respiration other organs to give him superhuman powers or Siddhis.

    These organs are under the control of the vegus nerve which
    runs the length of the spine and has connections to the plexuses
    of the sympathetic nervous system, branches of nerve fibres
    that correlate to the Chakras and Nadis of the subtle body.

    The lowest chakra the Muladhara corresponds to the pelvic plexus,
    the Manipura chakra is identified with the Coeliac-axis, the Kundalini
    Chakra is the Solar plexus, the Anahaa chackra the cardiac plexus,
    the Vishuddi chakra the pharyngal plexus, the Taluda chackra corresponds
    to the cavernous plexus at the base of the skull, and finally the Ajynya
    chackra, the third eye which is called the plexus of command.

    I'm not a doctor, neither am i an ascended master,
    for irrefutable scientific evidence, you would
    have to be qualified in both yoga an medicine to be totaly
    satisfied, and even then would have to go see for yourself,
    but i think it much healthier to remain open to
    the possibility that for most of us there are processes in both
    body and the mind that we are yet to become fully aware of.

    OM
     
  13. IndianCurry2010 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    87
    Kundalini's theory of the serpent rising is a hoax

    I have found a more scientific explanation that might help explain great feats of strenght which are often termed urban myths.

    Kundalini would have us believe that when humans become super human a "serpent" arises from the base of the spinal cord. Well all I have to say is this is bunch of rubbish.

    Now lets face the facts read this and i hope things wil beginto make more sense.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golgi_tendon_organ

    The golgi tendon reflex Golgi tendon organ limits all our muscles to perform well below our ability to prevent any damage to the nervous system. Now there are ways of overcoming the protective reflex,

    1. Strength training involves a neurological adaptation
    2. Electrical shocks can help override the GTR (will discuss this later)

    With point 2 i am compiling a list of experiments carried out by scientists

    So lets forget about the serpent rising from the base of the spine what alot of jibberesh

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  14. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    Yes, you are right, a serpent rising out of the human body. Is it as gibberish like 330 million or so Gods? After all Kundalini and Hinduism go together, are not they?
     
  15. Sparkofbliss Registered Senior Member

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    22
    Inorder to understand atomic physics you have to complete schooling graduation etc.arts student can not understand physics or chemistry.similarly if you do not practice yoga,you can not realise kundalini and chakras spoken by yogis
     
  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    When I was much younger, I went through a period where I wanted to know more about eastern and western philosophy. Most of my education was science and economics. After graduating and getting my first jobs as an engineer, I went through a phase of personal learning to help balance me off. Among many things, I learned about kundalini yoga. I also practiced one of the techniques to see what would happen. I saw it as an opportunity to collect data, so I could come to my own conclusion, based on first hand data, instead of second hand hearsay; pro or con. I was open either way, and would let the data decide, since I had one foot in science and one toe on the other foot, into the yoga.

    Before I began the kundalini experiments, I used another form of yoga, to help me prepare, so I could get a more controlled experiment. This technique was called chaotic meditation. The logic of this preliminary yoga was the western mind is full of distractions and can't empty its mind that easily. This meant there would be an overlap of this noise onto any data. I first needed to learn how to calm by mind, body and emotions and blank out the noise.

    The technique of chaotic meditation, started with me jumping around my apartment in a type of random dance for 10 min. The idea was to tire and scramble body patterns with these unorganized movement patterns. Then you did 10 mins of catharsis, where you sort of overacted random emotion, to tire out and scramble your emotions. Then you would talk gibberish for 10 mins, to disrupt language and thought patterns. The random sounds of gibberish make no sense or have any order. Then you relax for 10 minutes, trying to make your mind, heart and body feel blank. Once I could blank my mind; after a few weeks, it was time to begin.

    Kundalini yoga is a visualization and breathing exercise. In this philosophy there are assumed to be seven chakra or energy centers. If we list them from from bottom to top, the first is at the base of the spine, next the spleen, then the navel, the heart, the throat, the mind's eye (between the eyes) and the top of the head. What you do is inhale slowly, visualizing energy going into the bottom center. Then you exhale, visualize the energy going from that center, up the spine, out the top of the head. You do this sequentially for each center, for seven complete cycles. It would take 10-20 mins per day.

    After doing this each day for about a month, some interesting mind effects began to occur. The final effect, that made me stop the research, was my body began to feel like it was inflating and I filled the entire room. I had reached the data I had hoped for, since this was suppose to have been sort of the launch pad for what was called astral projection. But I became afraid to go further and complete the exercise, since I did not know how to get back in. I never really expected to get where I got, so i was not prepared.

    After that encounter with the bizarre mind effects, I stopped completely and began to study collective psychology to help me explain these odd effects, in terms of the science of the mind and brain. I felt much more secure looking at this from the outside, than being on the inside generating data. Based on Jungian psychology, my theory at the time, was I had somehow induce an aspect of the brain's personality firmware. Or as Jung called it, one of the archetypes of the collective unconscious.

    The only technique, I did was based on visualizing the energy going up the spine. There was also a forbidden technique, that visualized the exhale energy going down the spine and out the bottom of the spine. I did not try that technique, since the good side of the energy was scary enough. My theory at the time was the forbidden technique induce firmware in the brain stem instead of the limbic system.
     
  17. IndianCurry2010 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    87
    Wellwisher if what you saying is true its fascinating. Thanks for sharing your experience with us all. I am thinking of studying kundalini your experiences have got me intrigued. Its funny a few days ago I went to a free Qi gong openin day this healer did a free session on me and said i was lacking energy in my base and sacral chakra.

    I was thinking the guy is probably trying to con me into doing qi gong sessions but maybe he was right. As my martial arts teacher said I need to work on my lower body to generate more strenght.

    Can you recommend kundalini exercises ? I did a search on the internet and came across this site,

    developyourenergy.net

    What do you think ?
     
  18. dbnp48 Q.E.D. Registered Senior Member

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    I Googled "kundalini scientific research" and checked a few dozen references. I wasn't able to find a single site that didn't have an obvious, substantial bias.
     
  19. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    When it comes to phenomena of the human mind, there are two ways to collect data. One is from the outside, and the other is from the inside. I mention this to help everyone understand the gap between science and the cause and effects associated such things like kundalini yoga.

    As an example of the contrast, say someone just lost a loved one to an accident. From the outside collecting data, we can look at body language and facial expression to infer their grief. We can even do a brain scan. But from this second hand POV, you can never know exactly what they feeling and experiencing on the inside, unless you had the opportunity to collect your own first hand data ( same experience). By using only third person data (outside looking in), there is a data gap based on the entire cause and effect. Often the way we fill in the gap is to empathized, based on similar but different first hand data, (one's own similar experiences). The data gap is smaller but there is still a gap.

    When I approached kundalini yoga, I wanted to collect my own first hand data. This technique was odd to me and most people, such that most people don't even have a platform of experience to begin to empathize, so they can fill in the data gap.

    The analogy would be like a person who is always happy, being asked to write a paper on sad. He can make good second person observations of the body language and sounds of sad and infer many things. But he can't empathize to close the data gap. In the case of kundalini yoga the third person data is not too exciting. The good stuff is in the first person.

    I never published results simply because science does not use first hand mind data. The reason is, first hand data can not be verified, like second hand data, so second hand data is preferred, even if it leaves a data gap.

    Most data presented by yoga master is from their own first hand accounts. But the presentation is often very esoteric based on their own philosophy making it harder to empathize without first hand data. I thought I might be able to bring my science skills to help me collect first hand data, while trying my best to remain objective and fair. That was not as easy as its sounded, which is why I stopped data collection when it was getting less than rational.

    From what I learned, the exercises did tweak my mind in odd ways. I can better empathize with the longer term effects on the Yogi masters. But for my part, I took another path for inducing similar first hand data.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  20. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    I'm just curious - what is that other path you took?
     
  21. IndianCurry2010 Registered Senior Member

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    Wellwisher can you please share with us what path you took ?

    I have started a series of kundalini breathing exercises as I purchased a product a few days ago will begin a new thread and document my progress.

    Thanks
     
  22. GwenNC Registered Member

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    1
    I am currently experiencing a Kundalini Rising which means I am not filly awakened yet. Its taken nine years for Kundalini to rise to my throat Chakra. Currently, My Kundalini is working on a energy block that is about 3-4 inches below my Third Eye Chakra. I had a Spontaneous Kundalini Rising which means I was not intentionally trying to raise my Kundalini. I have always been spiritual and had done light meditation but no yoga practices.

    Every human has the Kundalini dormant near their tail bone. So eventually everyone could possibly have a Kundalini Awakening. It is thought that the Kundalini Awakening Process is a form of Evolution.

    I truly wish there was more scientific studies being conducted. I would volunteer to be studied if ethical treatment was enforced.
     
  23. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    3,367
    Hi Gwen;

    Your post and this thread intrigues me very much. May I ask...how did you start on this path? Can this be a path to enlightenment? Must one have a desire to be spiritual, in order to benefit from this?
     

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