Discussion in 'Politics' started by Seattle, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    I thought that was the standard, accepted, quasi-official explanation. It's the only one I ever heard seriously discussed.
    His lefty critics don't exactly take him for a fool. He has the incompetence of hubris - but so do many of dangerous capability. That comes with the territory. (It also comes with Lewy Body Dementia https://www.alz.org/dementia/dementia-with-lewy-bodies-symptoms.asp)
    His standard Republican (fascist) approach of destroying the influence of reason for the benefit of power and money - which he undertakes to assure will be his power, his wealth, his dynasty - is deeply foolish of course. Even if he succeeds, he gains a diminished thing - diminished by his gaining it. That's why those of his ilk wear the medals, actually sit and watch the parades, demand the flattery, focus on abusing their enemies.

    But that does not make him a fool in the sense of being incapable, having no genuine power, chasing windmills of mist. If you have ever walked into the living room of a mob boss, you can see manifested the utter folly of undertaking organized crime to gain wealth. But that doesn't mean the wealth was not gained, or that he can be easily deprived of it.
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    The only way to help the people of N. Korea is to do anything possible to help open up the country over time and to expose the people to the outside world as much as possible.

    For that reason, getting Kim out meeting other world leaders is a good thing to the extent that the people of N.Korea become more exposed to the outside world. It's the law of unintended consequences that could ultimately help the people of N. Korea.

    Our policies should be to try to encourage more small enterprise in N. Korea. The rest could happen naturally after that. Reunification may or may not ever happen however.
    sculptor likes this.
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  5. Bells Staff Member

    Nothing gets past you, does it, Champ.......?

    There is no exit strategy for Kim Jong Un.

    There is a vast difference between being stupid and self serving.
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  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    some would argue that there has been many attempts to do just that over the 60 odd years since the 1954 ceasefire that have failed miserably.

    Unfortunately time is not on any ones side when you consider the current sanctions in place due to the demand from the USA and allied that NK de-nuclearize.
    The living situation in NK must be deteriorating rapidly from an already significant low.

    Apparently the Chinese government had been quietly building a network of refugee camps in anticipation of a future flood of people from North Korea.
    "China has reportedly begun constructing multiple refugee camps capable of holding large numbers of asylum seekers fleeing potential disaster on the Korean Peninsula, according to a document leaked on Chinese microblogging site Weibo."​
    src: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...amps-along-north-korean-border-report/9258082
    reported many sources
    If true, it is very telling of what the Chinese are observing in North Korea and what they may be predicting to be the outcome of the more recent heavy sanctions on NK.

    The reality is that NK is facing the biggest sanctions driven humanitarian crisis it has ever faced.

    Being a societal "military first " (Songun) system means that the well being of the military (especially the nuke program) will always be the highest priority. So we can all expect to see some rather nasty stats coming out of NK soon regarding those not a part of that "military first" priority. ( Elderly,Children, Educators etc)
    I tend to think also that the bulk of the population supports the "military first" ( Songun) policy due to their intense fears of invasion and are prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to support it. (siege mentality)
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    true... none made public that's for sure...
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Almost everything Trump has done since taking office indicates to me that Putin is pulling strings using some extremely damaging information that only Putin and Trump know and only Putin has control of. The stage is being deliberately set so to speak, and we shall just have to wait and see what happens...
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    I don't have how much effort has been put into engaging N. Korea as far as bringing it into the rest of the world or in focusing on improving their economy.

    The focus is always on trying to get them to promise something that actually is not in their best interests to do. We are more focused on the nukes than on trying to open up their country and economy.
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    try this wiki link for a read :
    n 1998, South Korean President Kim Dae-jung announced a Sunshine Policy towards North Korea. Despite a naval clash in 1999, this led in June, 2000, to the first Inter-Korean summit, between Kim Dae-jung and Kim Jong-il.[52] As a result, Kim Dae-jung was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.[53] The summit was followed in August by a family reunion.[40] In September, the North and South Korean teams marched together at the Sydney Olympics.[54] Trade increased to the point where South Korea became North Korea's largest trading partner.[55] Starting in 1998, the Mount Kumgang Tourist Region was developed as a joint venture between the North Korean government and Hyundai.[56] In 2003, the Kaesong Industrial Region was established to allow South Korean businesses to invest in the North.[57]
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Actually, I do think I remember the North and South creating special manufacturing zone like Mexico and the U.S. have near the boarder.

    However, the U.S. pressure is generally about their weapons. Bush including them in the "Axis of Evil" shows how we really think of them.
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Another case study would be the new peace deal (2016) reached between FARC and the government of Columbia. The resolution of this war has certain parallels with the Korean situation IMO.

    It is worth while mentioning at the risk of causing angst that:
    "FARC members would be able to establish a political party, and would in general be granted full immunity for full confession and cooperation"

    However later in the process:
    The Special Jurisdiction for Peace (Jurisdicción Especial para la Paz, JEP) would be the transitional justice component of the Comprehensive System, complying with Colombia's duty to investigate, clarify, prosecute and punish serious human rights violations and grave breaches of international humanitarian law which occurred during the armed conflict. Its objectives would be to satisfy victims' right to justice, offer truth to the public, contribute to the reparation of victims, contribute to the fight against impunity, adopt decisions which give full legal security to direct and indirect participants in the conflict and contribute to the achievement of a stable and lasting peace

    Following the end of the armed conflict, the government would "grant the broadest possible amnesty" (as per section 5, article 6 of Protocol II of the Geneva Conventions) for rebels who have subscribed a final peace agreement with the State (crime of rebellion) and for those accused or condemned for political and related offences, as permitted by the Colombian Constitution. Amnesty or pardon does not absolve one from the obligation to contribute, individually or collectively, to the clarification of the truth. An amnesty law adopted by Congress would clearly determine those crimes eligible for amnesty or pardon and those which are not, as well as the definition of related offences.
    As to how effective these amnesty and conditions attached, are or will be is yet to be determined.

  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    It is official:
    USA and South Korea have agreed to call off planned war games for August.
    src: many
  15. Bells Staff Member


    It is the Kaesong industrial region.
  16. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

    I give Trump credit for attempting the Deplomac approach, if Kimmy don't do whats correct then i would like to see a Statement made at the same time The bombs Fall, include the phrase they brought this on themselves. And let loose 30,000LB Bunker Busters, GBU-43/B MOABs, a Couple Russian type FOABs, hell fires, 1 of Boeings "CHAMP" NON NUCLEAR Type EMP weapons. And after everything is said and done bring in the NATO forces, and turn north korea over to the South Korea. Help to set up treaties and support like east and west Germany at the fall of the Berlin Wall. .
  17. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

    Some American Nazi wrote:
    Of course, only a few millions of Koreans will die, who cares, they are anyway only subhumans, not?

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