Karen

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by DaveC426913, Apr 28, 2020.

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How bad is the Karen slur on a continuous scale of OK to horrible?

Poll closed May 12, 2020.
  1. 0 Harmless silly internet fun that too many are offended by

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. 1 Mostly harmless "You may be a redneck if..." fun

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  3. 2. Harmful, but not surprising in a cynical world

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 3. Very harmful - needs to be fought as any other form of oppression

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 4. Analogous to the N-word - as some claim

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,323
    There was a moment, yesterday, when a Politico reporter, Blake Hounshell↱ accused:

    Angry Twitter users took down the website of an investment company with $700 billion on assets because people think one of its employees was that lady behaving horrendously in Central Park

    While much of the twit league response was to wonder at the specifics, journalist Talia Lavin↱ made a point of assessing the narrative, declaring Hounshell's tweet, "very politico to be like, think of the assets".

    Meanwhile, as we perceive and react to emerging video out of Minneapolis, of the arrest and apparent slaying of George Floyd, radio host and author Joy Reid↱ declared, "My God...and this is why the Amy Cooper story struck such terror into every black person."

    †​

    The incident has cost Amy Cooper her dog, and likely her job; she may well be prosecuted.

    But I want to say this, of the dog, who has already been through enough: There will come a day when everyone else is supposed to let it go and get over it because white supremacists will be forgiven as noncompetent according to the old complaint that liberals won't punish anyone, and thus racists expect to never answer for the harm they inflict. But if we're sincere, and expect terrible human beings to rehabilitate, that dog, who has already been through enough, can lead Ms. Cooper there. Without that help, I don't expect she will ever rise above what she has done to herself, the dog, or the black man she sought to murder.
    ___________________

    Notes:

    @blakehounshell. "Angry Twitter users took down the website of an investment company with $700 billion on assets because people think one of its employees was that lady behaving horrendously in Central Park". Twitter. 25 May 2020. Twitter.com. 26 May 2020. https://bit.ly/3c1Z4Eh

    @chick_in_kiev. "very politico to be like, think of the assets". Twitter. 25 May 2020. Twitter.com. 26 May 2020. https://bit.ly/2THymKL

    @JoyAnnRied. "My God...and this is why the Amy Cooper story struck such terror into every black person. We watched that video frozen, bracing for a bad police outcome. We watch this video frozen. It’s Eric Garner all over again. Those brave young bystanders watched it live. George Floyd RIP." Twitter. 26 May 2020. Twitter.com. 26 May 2020. https://bit.ly/2yyIs9t
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,562
    Indeed. She must be absolutely tone deaf and living under a rock if she thought that the officials and the public would somehow be on her side.

    -wow- she is treating it abysmally.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,562
    OK, he wasn't as entirely passive as it might seem; he was actually prepared for an altercation:


    ME: Look, if you're going to do what you want, I'm going to do what I want, but you're not going to like it.
    HER: What's that?
    ME (to the dog): Come here, puppy!
    HER: He won't come to you.
    ME: We'll see about that...
    I pull out the dog treats I carry for just for such intransigence. I didn't even get a chance to toss any treats to the pooch before Karen scrambled to grab the dog.


    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/index.html


    Serves her right though. That's why dogs must be leashed - so their owners have them under control.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,323
    That's a weird citation for an abridged version of the man's own description; to the other, I'm not certain what versions are circulating where.

    We should, moreover, note the twittery↱ making the argument that, "Chris Cooper's description of his words/ actions PRIOR to this clip would make most women feel threatened", and maybe the point would hold up to scrutiny if, for instance that someone was a woman, and, furthermore, the point was not already resolved otherwise. The obvious response ran↱, "As a woman, if I was scared of a man I wouldn't go up to him with my finger in their face. She was so close to him that HE told HER to back up."

    Much like Ms. Cooper's emergency call, the post hoc justification some conservative dude offered on Twitter relies on the trope of a scary black man, which was already resolved, before he ever thought to tweet.

    Such as it is, I needed to cover that, at least, since I came across it along the way. Still, an effort to vilify Christian Cooper, in order to exonerate or mitigate the behavior of Amy Cooper, might have run a little differently on Twitter if not for the horror show out of Minneapolis, the slaying of George Floyd. And who knows what tomorrow will bring, or maybe Wohl and Burkman will show up in six weeks to hold a press conference.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    @isaygooddaysir2. "I believe 2 things: 1) Amy is a terrible person & comfortable using race to her advantage 2) Chris Cooper's description of his words/ actions PRIOR to this clip would make most #women feel threatened. 'I'm going to do what I like but you're not going to like it'". Twitter. 26 May 2020. Twitter.com. 26 May 2020. https://bit.ly/2ZF1Oot

    @phxgirl44. "As a woman, if I was scared of a man I wouldn’t go up to him with my finger in their face. She was so close to him that HE told HER to back up. Regardless she lied in the 911 call and faked distress. She’s despicable!" Twitter. 26 May 2020. Twitter.com. 26 May 2020. https://bit.ly/2X637uU

    @Star5AtNight. "The backstory behind Christian Cooper’s encounter with Amy Cooper. #JusticeForChristianCooper #FireAmyCooper". Twitter. 25 May 2020. Twitter.com. 26 May 2020. https://bit.ly/2TH4CxI
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,550
    Seems she's now lost her job - and her future employment prospects will not be bright, give that she is now a celebrity racist in the public mind.

    The guy refused to gloat about it, saying he was not sure that tearing one person's life apart (which is what has happened to her) would really help much to deal with the underlying issue in society. True.

    For her, a real "Bonfire of the Vanities" moment, anyway.
     
  9. Neddy Bate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    It's probably worth mentioning that Bell's description of 'Karen' is perfectly personified in this latest Karen, Amy Cooper. And also, Bell's assessment that this thread's poll is flawed, rings even more true now.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,562
    I was attempting to get a sense on a scale from harmless to harmful. The options are not simply made up by me; they are examples of dialogue about the issue from the media. Yes, they contain an obviously extreme - nay ridiculous - option (because that is the upper limit of the scale). No one has voted for that option.

    I guess the option that's missing is at the other end: -1: warranted (i.e. calls out privileged behavior).
    Would that make it better?
     
  11. Neddy Bate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    Yes, I think that would be a step in the right direction.
     
  12. Neddy Bate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    I'm not sure what to make of her. At least her apology sounds a little more sincere than the typical "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" non-apologies that get thrown around.

    I don't want to kick her when she is down, but aside from having all of the attributes of a Karen (per Bell's description) in this incident, I can't help but comment that she also seems to be a terrible dog owner. She obviously preferred to drag her dog around by the collar, choking it and seemingly nearly killing it in the process, rather than (heaven forbid) put the effing leash on it as per the law as the man had rightfully requested. Plus, people who love their dogs would have a terrible time giving them up, and yet she gave hers up voluntarily. Did she not love her own dog? Did she adopt the dog as some kind of accessory, like a hand bag? I don't understand her thinking (sic) at all, but hopefully she will re-evaluate herself now.
     
  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,550
    She'll have plenty of time to do that, certainly. Her career in the finance industry will be over. She'll have to re-invent herself in charitable work or something. I agree, I don't get the bit about the dog.

    But I do now understand why the term Karen has acquired a different meaning in the US from the one it has in the UK. No Karen in the UK (and we have plenty) would think of trying to threaten a black man by calling the cops and telling them he was black and that's why it was so urgent!
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,562
    It's easy to apologize once the whole world has weighed-in to tell you you were an asshole (after all, I'm certain she is VERY sorry right now).

    The mark of character is not to be an asshole even when you don't think anyone is watching.
     
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,562
    Fascinating read. Lots to unpack.

    https://www.katykatikate.com/the-bl...h1L9vboRvnl7MEQSsu1tULJHT2nmpZ1zDvu4gHUvVhL30

    "INSTEAD OF POSTING “I’m so ashamed”… Say "I'm sorry," "I see you," or "that's awful," an expression of condolence and connection that isn't about you and your feelings. Remind yourself that Chris is the most important person here.

    Your shock isn't enough. Your wow isn't solidarity. Your actions are the only thing I can accept at this point."
     
  16. Neddy Bate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    Yeah, I'm guilty of talking about the dog. She was treating the man worse than she was treating the dog, trying to get him arrested, or possibly even killed by cop, under the false claim that he was threatening her. That is even more reprehensible than nearly strangling her dog.
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,562
    Her treatment of the dog is merely confirmation of her nature. I wouldn't expect her to be polite to a stranger, but she's even terrible to an ostensible loved one.
     

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