Justice and Rape Culture: The Women Are Speaking

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    And therein you describe your problem.

    The crisis isn't a "conniption" of women speaking out; the ongoing crisis is rape culture itself.
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  3. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Okay, I will concede that our culture has fostered an image of women that paints them in a lesser role--weak, fragile, and incompetent. However, the #MeToo movement, to me, appears to reinforce that stereotype: weak, fragile, and incompetent.

    The conniption I mention is in a larger context. The #MeToo movement is only a small element in the larger picture.
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  5. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    life is organic, malleable. and constantly evolving. I can't site the study, but I read most men prefer women who are strong and self-confident.

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  7. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    How are women who stand up to abusers and fight back "weak, fragile, and incompetent?"

    If there were "#LetMenGetAwayWithIt #DontMakeWaves #ItIsntSoBad" movements I would agree that they would tend to reinforce that stereotype. But there aren't.
    Well, from that perspective, the "#MeToo" movement will help overall. (As long as you're not a sexual assaulter, of course.)
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    #rapeculture | #TheWomenAreSpeaking

    What: "For nurses, sexual harassment from patients is 'par for the course'"↱

    Who: Elizabeth Chuck (NBC News)

    When: 21 February 2018

    We'll try this one as a mansplanation for the boys because, well, I'll think of a reason, later.

    While treating male patients, it's not unusual for Meghann Justice, an emergency room nurse, to be called a "cute little thing." Or to have a patient expose himself. Or to have her breasts grabbed as she leans over to put in an IV line.

    "It just comes par for the course, unfortunately," Justice, a travel nurse who has worked in ERs across the country for the past six years, said. "In the ER especially, we're very hands-on with our patients and physically close to them, and sometimes they're inebriated, or on drugs, or very ill" ....

    .... "I think it's really important to shine a light on this and to let people know that these are conversations we have at the nursing stations," Justice, 38, said. "We'll trade war stories."

    Justice spoke to NBC News and shared a story that many others did during an investigation into another aspect of harassment that women in the male-dominated field of medicine frequently face: inappropriate conduct from their male peers or superiors. Over the course of several months, women residents, nurses, and surgeons told NBC News about rampant misconduct, including vulgar comments from male physicians, whispered to them in operating rooms over anesthetized patients; propositions in hospital call rooms; and questions about their bra sizes from male co-workers.

    Many of the women also mentioned how common sexual harassment from patients is. A poll published earlier this month by Medscape Medical News found that 71 percent of nurses said they had been harassed by a patient.

    An object lesson regarding the problems of inserting my masculinity into the narrative is that I'm waiting for the opportunity to wonder sarcastically, how a dying man is supposed to meet women. In other words, #nevermind, because the women are still speaking such manners of truth as only they can know.

    One thing that is easy enough to see, of course, is that the whole situation really is a complicated mess. Dr. Seun Ross, of the American Nurses Association considered the nature of what nurses do, explaining that "sexual harassment in general is probably one of the most persistent problems in the workplace, but in terms of nursing, the lines are blurred because we see patients in their most vulnerable state"; underpinning the conundrum are the ethics of medical practice.

    While Title VII, federal law prohibiting gender discrimination, and other state laws on the subject, might have any number of things to say, employers—i.e., hospitals and other medical facilities—are left to figure out what to do about the problems. Mediator Scotty Shively reminds that these aren't customers in a retail store. "It gets complicated," she explains, "when you have a patient." The more general result is to discuss the issue with the patient if possible, and then begin rotating out harassed nurses.

    Ross, of the American Nurses Association, urged nurses and other women in medicine to speak up for themselves.

    "Nurses are excusing that as, 'that's just men being men,' but I think once we understand what the true definition of sexual harassment is, which is any advances that are unwelcome or unsolicited that are sexual, and we stop excusing it, then the change will happen," she said. "We want to drive accountability so we're able to enforce consequences, and once we do that, you'll see more and more nurses speak out."

    Which, of course, leads back to Shively's point, that it gets complicated because these are medical patients, and not retail customers one simply ejects from the store. Accountability becomes a very difficult question, and thereby the enforcement of consequences.

    Meghann Justice points back to rape culture and "the stereotype of the sexy nurse"; it is also easy enough to wonder at the nature of what comforts, privileges, or prey patients might seek. That is, even granting the best of presuppositions about the human condition of any given offender in this context, there remains a broader question of culture or perhaps species by which the rewarding brain chemistry of molesting a nurse has what significant therapeutic value. Or, if this is automatic behavior for loss of competency under medical duress, why this priority? The priority of the pattern is either cultural or, if we invoke evopsych, a matter of species. In the one case, what's up with any given society; in the other, the question is what's up with men.

    Nonetheless, such questions seem something of a long way off. It is not that Ross hasn't thought her words through, or anything; we can presume, and even expect, she has, indeed, given the subject reasonable thought. Yet, still: Accountability. Enforce consequences. She can know precisely what she is talking about; a significant portion of the remainder of society has trouble getting past, "Yeah, but what does that even mean?" And, yes, stay tuned, we'll see.

    Also notice, however, how far out in the range such questions are. Yes, these are difficult dimensions with a dying patient. The dude who's really, really high and just wants to get a little while he's either overdosing or not; yeah, somewhere in that range, something, something, mumble, sigh.

    We need the women to speak; most of society has no idea what is going on along the front lines of workplace sexual harassment. It's not just no reason to doubt. We have every affirmative reason to accept and believe what these women are telling us. And when we intend to take that moment to ask what seems a perfectly obvious question, take a moment on the front side, please, to consider potentially perfectly obvious answers. Why not just ask the police to stack a sex offense on top of public intoxication? What? Whether we consider that answer in sympathy with the harassed nurse, the intoxicated offender, or the whole damn system, just how well do we think that would go over?
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    #rapeculture | #TheWomenAreSpeaking

    What: "Homeless Women Say 'Me Too,' But No One Listens"↱

    Who: Mari Kate Mycek (Huffington Post)

    When: 13 March 2018

    Food insecurity is itself a manner of violence. While some objections pretend this notion is confusing, those objections generally avoid discussing the parts wherein and whereby hunger is inflicted. Mari Kate Mycek↱ offers grim insight:

    Like many women, I am heartened by the Me Too movement and the spotlight it has put on sexual assault and harassment. It makes me want to fight harder to tell the stories of those whose voices are still going unheard—especially those of women experiencing homelessness.

    As a sociologist who studies food insecurity, I regularly meet with women who don't have homes. Many times, what starts off as a conversation about food turns into a conversation about something else. They want to talk about how unsafe they feel in the world. They tell me they won't go to certain food providers because they believe they'll get harassed there—or they already have been harassed there.

    Harassment and abuse aren't part of the public conversation surrounding food insecurity. They aren't part of the conversation surrounding homelessness. Yet from what I've been hearing and witnessing—and from what the research shows—homeless women aren't safe no matter where they go.


    The constant threat of sexual violence and harassment against these women has been well-documented. In a 2005 survey of 737 such women by Florida researchers, 78 percent reported they'd been subjected to rape, physical assault and/or stalking in their lifetime. Those rates are disproportionately higher than the national average.

    However, when I bring up these issues with friends or family or even fellow academics, they commonly reply, "I've never thought about that before." The general public isn't reading academic research about the homeless population, and the mainstream media isn't covering it.
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    According to bankruptcy announcements from the executives of the Weinstein production company, 25% of their employees have quit since October.
  12. birch Valued Senior Member


    this is also common. she could have gotten into trouble more than the idol.
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Idol pop is its own cultural weave, and while the pop music industry in general seems pretty much a rape factory, idol pop often looks, from the east side of the Pacific, like industrialized slut-shaming sexual exploitation much unlike American and British post-Edwardian pretenses to industrialized slut-shaming sexual exploitation. Given the American predilection for an expectation of subservience about Asian women, even now there is some aspect of the culture that would, if isolated in an inventory, reveal itself to be jealous of the J- and K-Pop industries. And when the next generation of American musical women recall in song these powerful days of #MeToo and #TimesUp, they're still going to be groped and harassed and raped along the way because it's the goddamn recording industry.

    Still, though, when Britney shaved her head, it was ... not obligatory. From afar, the Asian pop markets are breathtakingly puzzling; to the other, that outcome cannot be extricated from the fact of who we are, afar, and our priority describing what actually achieves our notice.
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Another band of the spectrum refracted from the jewel of the lotus that is Western public discourse:
    From this writer:

    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018

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