Justice and Rape Culture: The Women Are Speaking

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    And therein you describe your problem.

    The crisis isn't a "conniption" of women speaking out; the ongoing crisis is rape culture itself.
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  3. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

    Okay, I will concede that our culture has fostered an image of women that paints them in a lesser role--weak, fragile, and incompetent. However, the #MeToo movement, to me, appears to reinforce that stereotype: weak, fragile, and incompetent.

    The conniption I mention is in a larger context. The #MeToo movement is only a small element in the larger picture.
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  5. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

    life is organic, malleable. and constantly evolving. I can't site the study, but I read most men prefer women who are strong and self-confident.

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  7. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    How are women who stand up to abusers and fight back "weak, fragile, and incompetent?"

    If there were "#LetMenGetAwayWithIt #DontMakeWaves #ItIsntSoBad" movements I would agree that they would tend to reinforce that stereotype. But there aren't.
    Well, from that perspective, the "#MeToo" movement will help overall. (As long as you're not a sexual assaulter, of course.)
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    #rapeculture | #TheWomenAreSpeaking

    What: "For nurses, sexual harassment from patients is 'par for the course'"↱

    Who: Elizabeth Chuck (NBC News)

    When: 21 February 2018

    We'll try this one as a mansplanation for the boys because, well, I'll think of a reason, later.

    While treating male patients, it's not unusual for Meghann Justice, an emergency room nurse, to be called a "cute little thing." Or to have a patient expose himself. Or to have her breasts grabbed as she leans over to put in an IV line.

    "It just comes par for the course, unfortunately," Justice, a travel nurse who has worked in ERs across the country for the past six years, said. "In the ER especially, we're very hands-on with our patients and physically close to them, and sometimes they're inebriated, or on drugs, or very ill" ....

    .... "I think it's really important to shine a light on this and to let people know that these are conversations we have at the nursing stations," Justice, 38, said. "We'll trade war stories."

    Justice spoke to NBC News and shared a story that many others did during an investigation into another aspect of harassment that women in the male-dominated field of medicine frequently face: inappropriate conduct from their male peers or superiors. Over the course of several months, women residents, nurses, and surgeons told NBC News about rampant misconduct, including vulgar comments from male physicians, whispered to them in operating rooms over anesthetized patients; propositions in hospital call rooms; and questions about their bra sizes from male co-workers.

    Many of the women also mentioned how common sexual harassment from patients is. A poll published earlier this month by Medscape Medical News found that 71 percent of nurses said they had been harassed by a patient.

    An object lesson regarding the problems of inserting my masculinity into the narrative is that I'm waiting for the opportunity to wonder sarcastically, how a dying man is supposed to meet women. In other words, #nevermind, because the women are still speaking such manners of truth as only they can know.

    One thing that is easy enough to see, of course, is that the whole situation really is a complicated mess. Dr. Seun Ross, of the American Nurses Association considered the nature of what nurses do, explaining that "sexual harassment in general is probably one of the most persistent problems in the workplace, but in terms of nursing, the lines are blurred because we see patients in their most vulnerable state"; underpinning the conundrum are the ethics of medical practice.

    While Title VII, federal law prohibiting gender discrimination, and other state laws on the subject, might have any number of things to say, employers—i.e., hospitals and other medical facilities—are left to figure out what to do about the problems. Mediator Scotty Shively reminds that these aren't customers in a retail store. "It gets complicated," she explains, "when you have a patient." The more general result is to discuss the issue with the patient if possible, and then begin rotating out harassed nurses.

    Ross, of the American Nurses Association, urged nurses and other women in medicine to speak up for themselves.

    "Nurses are excusing that as, 'that's just men being men,' but I think once we understand what the true definition of sexual harassment is, which is any advances that are unwelcome or unsolicited that are sexual, and we stop excusing it, then the change will happen," she said. "We want to drive accountability so we're able to enforce consequences, and once we do that, you'll see more and more nurses speak out."

    Which, of course, leads back to Shively's point, that it gets complicated because these are medical patients, and not retail customers one simply ejects from the store. Accountability becomes a very difficult question, and thereby the enforcement of consequences.

    Meghann Justice points back to rape culture and "the stereotype of the sexy nurse"; it is also easy enough to wonder at the nature of what comforts, privileges, or prey patients might seek. That is, even granting the best of presuppositions about the human condition of any given offender in this context, there remains a broader question of culture or perhaps species by which the rewarding brain chemistry of molesting a nurse has what significant therapeutic value. Or, if this is automatic behavior for loss of competency under medical duress, why this priority? The priority of the pattern is either cultural or, if we invoke evopsych, a matter of species. In the one case, what's up with any given society; in the other, the question is what's up with men.

    Nonetheless, such questions seem something of a long way off. It is not that Ross hasn't thought her words through, or anything; we can presume, and even expect, she has, indeed, given the subject reasonable thought. Yet, still: Accountability. Enforce consequences. She can know precisely what she is talking about; a significant portion of the remainder of society has trouble getting past, "Yeah, but what does that even mean?" And, yes, stay tuned, we'll see.

    Also notice, however, how far out in the range such questions are. Yes, these are difficult dimensions with a dying patient. The dude who's really, really high and just wants to get a little while he's either overdosing or not; yeah, somewhere in that range, something, something, mumble, sigh.

    We need the women to speak; most of society has no idea what is going on along the front lines of workplace sexual harassment. It's not just no reason to doubt. We have every affirmative reason to accept and believe what these women are telling us. And when we intend to take that moment to ask what seems a perfectly obvious question, take a moment on the front side, please, to consider potentially perfectly obvious answers. Why not just ask the police to stack a sex offense on top of public intoxication? What? Whether we consider that answer in sympathy with the harassed nurse, the intoxicated offender, or the whole damn system, just how well do we think that would go over?
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    #rapeculture | #TheWomenAreSpeaking

    What: "Homeless Women Say 'Me Too,' But No One Listens"↱

    Who: Mari Kate Mycek (Huffington Post)

    When: 13 March 2018

    Food insecurity is itself a manner of violence. While some objections pretend this notion is confusing, those objections generally avoid discussing the parts wherein and whereby hunger is inflicted. Mari Kate Mycek↱ offers grim insight:

    Like many women, I am heartened by the Me Too movement and the spotlight it has put on sexual assault and harassment. It makes me want to fight harder to tell the stories of those whose voices are still going unheard—especially those of women experiencing homelessness.

    As a sociologist who studies food insecurity, I regularly meet with women who don't have homes. Many times, what starts off as a conversation about food turns into a conversation about something else. They want to talk about how unsafe they feel in the world. They tell me they won't go to certain food providers because they believe they'll get harassed there—or they already have been harassed there.

    Harassment and abuse aren't part of the public conversation surrounding food insecurity. They aren't part of the conversation surrounding homelessness. Yet from what I've been hearing and witnessing—and from what the research shows—homeless women aren't safe no matter where they go.


    The constant threat of sexual violence and harassment against these women has been well-documented. In a 2005 survey of 737 such women by Florida researchers, 78 percent reported they'd been subjected to rape, physical assault and/or stalking in their lifetime. Those rates are disproportionately higher than the national average.

    However, when I bring up these issues with friends or family or even fellow academics, they commonly reply, "I've never thought about that before." The general public isn't reading academic research about the homeless population, and the mainstream media isn't covering it.
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    According to bankruptcy announcements from the executives of the Weinstein production company, 25% of their employees have quit since October.
  12. birch Valued Senior Member


    this is also common. she could have gotten into trouble more than the idol.
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Idol pop is its own cultural weave, and while the pop music industry in general seems pretty much a rape factory, idol pop often looks, from the east side of the Pacific, like industrialized slut-shaming sexual exploitation much unlike American and British post-Edwardian pretenses to industrialized slut-shaming sexual exploitation. Given the American predilection for an expectation of subservience about Asian women, even now there is some aspect of the culture that would, if isolated in an inventory, reveal itself to be jealous of the J- and K-Pop industries. And when the next generation of American musical women recall in song these powerful days of #MeToo and #TimesUp, they're still going to be groped and harassed and raped along the way because it's the goddamn recording industry.

    Still, though, when Britney shaved her head, it was ... not obligatory. From afar, the Asian pop markets are breathtakingly puzzling; to the other, that outcome cannot be extricated from the fact of who we are, afar, and our priority describing what actually achieves our notice.
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Another band of the spectrum refracted from the jewel of the lotus that is Western public discourse:
    From this writer:

    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  15. Bells Staff Member

    Hmm.. "Justice"..

    Some background..

    According to a complaint filed by APD detective Brett Sarber, a Native woman called 911 Aug. 8, moments after a man drove off in a white SUV following a brutal assault.

    When the woman was interviewed at the Alaska Native Medical Center, she told police a man calling himself “Dan” picked her up at the Holiday gas station on Minnesota Drive, telling her he could give her a ride to Muldoon. Instead of heading to the Eastside, the man drove to Wisconsin and 36th, where he told the woman to get out of the vehicle while he “loaded stuff in,” according to Sarber.

    The woman told police that when she got out of the vehicle, the man “full on tackled” her, held her to the ground and began choking her. The woman said she passed out, and when she awoke the man was standing over her with his penis out of his pants.

    “The man told her that he wasn’t really going to kill her, that he needed her to believe she was going to die so that he could be sexually fulfilled and ejaculate. Her offered her a tissue to clean her face up, which she used, and was left at the scene that APD later recovered and placed into Evidence,” Det. Sarber wrote.

    As the man drove away, the woman memorized his license plate number, which police said was registered to Justin S. Schneider of Eagle River. A different detective showed the victim a photo line-up containing Schneider’s photo, which police said she identified as that of her attacker.

    Schneider was also identified by other witnesses at a previous stop at a roadside construction site, as being the driver of the car and the victim was also identified as being in the car.

    So we have evidence from his DNA, the victim and witnesses..

    His DNA from when he masturbated on her unconscious body, after strangling her to the point of losing consciousness, because he needed her to think that she was going to die so that he could 'get off'.. When he left her there, he drove straight to work.

    He was arrested that evening. You see, Schneider worked as as air traffic controller at the nearby international airport.

    According to court records, Justin Scott Schneider, 33, is required to wear an ankle monitor and may only leave the home he shares with his wife and their two small children for medical, substance abuse treatment and court or legal appointments. Schneider’s wife, Megan, has been appointed his third-party custodian, meaning she must be with him at all times during his period of house arrest.


    Schneider works as an air traffic controller at Anchorage International Airport, according to an online police dispatch. He is charged with two felonies — second-degree assault and third-degree assault — for allegedly strangling the woman, and with first-degree harassment, a misdemeanor, for allegedly masturbating on her while she was unconscious.

    That's right..

    He got to go home with his wife and two small children..

    That was the background. This occurred all occurred in August last year.

    And now for the grand finale..

    An Anchorage man walked out of court a free man Wednesday after changing his plea in the case of a brazen midday assault in which charging documents say he offered a woman a ride, then strangled her unconscious and masturbated on her.

    An Anchorage grand jury indicted Justin Schneider, 34, on four felony charges including kidnapping and assault, and one misdemeanor count of Harassment I--offensive contact with fluids -- for the August 2017 incident.

    Schneider struck a deal with the state, pleading guilty to a single felony assault charge in exchange for a sentence of two years with one suspended. Schneider faces no additional jail time. He received credit for time served while wearing an ankle monitor and living with his family
    Believe it or not, that was not the worst of it. As bad as that was, this actually gets worse.

    Anchorage Assistant District Attorney Andrew Grannik said Wednesday that Schneider lost his job working for the federal government as a result of the case, a consequence he called a "life sentence."

    Grannik said he agreed to the plea deal based on Schneider's enrollment and progress in a treatment program, and an expert's assessment that the risk of him re-offending is low.

    "I hope it doesn't happen," Grannik said. "That's the reason why I made the deal that I've made, because I have reasonable expectations that it will not happen. But I would like the gentleman to be on notice that that is his one pass -- it's not really a pass -- but given the conduct, one might consider that it is."

    When given the opportunity to speak, Schneider offered no apology or recognition of the potential long-term impacts the assault might have had on his victim but highlighted the positive effects the case has had on his own life.

    "I would just like to emphasize how grateful I am for this process," Schneider said. "It has given me a year to really work on myself and become a better person, and a better husband, and a better father, and I'm very eager to continue that journey."

    That's right. Poor fellow has suffered a "life sentence" of losing his job for kidnapping, strangling a woman until she lost consciousness after telling her she was going to die, and then dropping his pants and masturbating and ejaculating over her unconscious body on the ground in broad daylight...

    And women who live in the area can be comforted in knowing that they are hoping he does not do it again... He has "reasonable expectations" you guys and girls! Because "the gentleman" is now on notice that he only gets one chance to kidnap, assault, strangle to unconsciousness, masturbate and ejaculate over her the unconscious body of a woman. Just one chance!

    If he does it again, well! No more chances!

    And that one chance he was given? He will not even be registered as a sex offender. Because he's suffered enough.. What he did was not sexual enough, perhaps? What? Strangling a woman, pulling one's pants down, wanking over her body and ejaculating all over her was not sexual, apparently..

    But it's all good, because this has given Schneider the chance to grow, become a better person and better husband and father and he's on a journey, you guys. A journey. I wonder if his journey will progress to rape and murder next time?

    Moving on, the Judge presiding over this charade was enraptured.

    Judge Michael Corey accepted the deal, noting the outcome of the case could be described as "breathtaking." He said his decision was based on the prospect of rehabilitation.

    "Mr. Schneider is going to be a member of our community, and he would not be in jail for the rest of his life even if he had been convicted on all of the counts for which he was charged," said Judge Corey.

    He also told Schneider, "This can never happen again."

    Yep. You tell him Judge Corey! Astonishing reasoning there..

    So, justice and rape culture and the women are speaking?

    A new Department of Justice study shows that of over 2,000 women surveyed, 84 percent of Native American and Alaskan Native women have experienced violence, 56 percent have experienced sexual violence, and, of that second group, over 90 percent have experienced violence at the hands of a non-tribal member. Most women reported they were concerned for their safety, and around half said they had experienced physical violence like pushing, shoving, or being beaten. Over 60 percent had experienced psychological aggression or coercive control. Experts say these record numbers still underestimate the number of women affected by violence, and the infrastructure for women to report and handle incidents is underfunded.


    The new report reveals the highest rates on record of violence against tribal women and men. It is also one of the first national reports to include significant research on the race of perpetrators, and showed that most were white. Andre Rosay, director of the Justice Center for the University of Alaska, who authored the study, said that by far the most glaring result was that almost every single victim experienced some sort of interracial violence

    I think one of the glaring things about rape culture, how we, as a society, address it and the women speaking, is the fact that it completely ignores minorities and non-white women.

    And this case embodies that to the fullest. A Native American woman is kidnapped, strangled until she lost consciousness and told she was going to be killed by her white assailant, she comes to and he has used her body to masturbate and ejaculate over her.. And he gets to walk away from it. And he won't even have to be registered as a sex offender.

    Sure, the women are speaking. What a shame that no one is listening when it comes to non-white women.
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    what the actual fuck is wrong with that judge... I have no words.
  17. Bells Staff Member

    It's not just the judge.

    But the ADA.. To even go forth with such a plea deal, and then describe Schneider in the terms that he did.

    The language used. The fact that kidnapping, assault, sexual assault, strangulation to the point of loss of consciousness, would warrant his walking away from this without even registration on the sex offenders registry and they literally argued that his crime had no sexual component to warrant a registration on the sex offenders list.

    More concerning is the brazen way in which Schneider committed this crime. In broad daylight. He felt confident enough to do this and then drive right on to work. And they think he won't do it again? Because they told him not to?

    The fact that there is a second chance to be had for a crime like this, is shocking.
  18. Capracus Valued Senior Member

    An Anchorage grand jury indicted Justin Schneider, 34, on four felony charges including kidnapping and assault, and one misdemeanor count of Harassment I--offensive contact with fluids -- for the August 2017 incident.


    Apparently under Alaskan state law, Schneider’s actions didn’t rise to the level of a sexual assault, and he wasn’t even charged. You would think that a linkage would be made between his act to incapacitate and his act of sexual gratification, but since he did not engage in what Alaska considers sexual contact, the actions were legally viewed separately.

  19. Bells Staff Member

    They do not consider strangling a woman until she loses consciousness, dropping one's pants and masturbating over her unconscious body and spraying her with one's semen to be sexual assault or even sexual violence.

    I just want to know how the prosecutor felt it was acceptable to accept a plea down from four, given the crimes committed...
  20. Capracus Valued Senior Member

    They probably dropped the the lesser two of harassment and offensive contact with fluids in exchange for a guilty plea on the assault. The kidnaping charge might have been hard to prove due to the fact that she agreed to go with him to the location of the assault. If Schneider had simply grabbed a breast or buttock during the assault, he could’ve been charged with second degree sexual assault and faced an additional 5-10 year sentence.

    What struck me about Schneider's behavior, other than the obvious, was the way he just walked away from the incident as if the two had just finished a consensual rape fantasy session.

    When the victim woke up, she told police, Schneider was rising from her and zipping up his pants. He offered her a tissue, which police later recovered as evidence.

    "The man told her that he wasn't really going to kill her, that he needed her to believe she was going to die so that he could be sexually fulfilled," Sarber wrote.

    The victim said Schneider also let her retrieve her backpack and cellphone from the SUV's front seat. Sarber said she used the phone to call police and report the vehicle's license-plate number the moment Schneider drove out of sight.

    The license plate number, along with the victim's description of the man, led APD to Schneider, who had reportedly driven from the scene of the assault to his job at Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport, where he worked as a controller in the airport's tower.


    Unless the guy was under the influence of some potent psychoactive substance, I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t be prone to re offend in the future. There seems to be some missing or loose screws in that head of his.
  21. Bells Staff Member

    He misled her.

    Would she have gone there with him if he had not misled her?

    It also shows premeditation. He didn't just pull over on the side of the road they were on to do it. He specifically told her he had to stop there for something, he then lured her out of the car and then attacked her. She consented to going there to pick up something. She did not consent to what he did to her.

    Well, we do not know if he did or did not. She was unconscious during a portion of the whole ordeal.

    He tackled her to the ground, I am assuming lay or sat on top of her to allow him to strangle her, because she reported he was too heavy to push away or stop. To suggest he did not come into contact with her breasts or genitals during that phase of the assault seems silly.

    It wasn't just that.

    It was the fact that he felt comfortable and confident enough to do this in broad daylight. Then zipped up and went to work, as though nothing had happened.

    And then the really disturbing aspect of this..

    He knew when to stop strangling her so that she just lost consciousness, with his bare hands.

    And this is where my eyebrows went up of their own accord. Strangulation is a very common form of domestic violence. And it is a very effective form of abuse and violence, and often accompanies sexual violence, because of its effectiveness in controlling the victim through absolute fear of their lives.. And his goal was for her to believe that he was going to kill her. That is what got him off.

    His wife, despite all of this, stays with him, along with their two small children? She became his guardian of sorts, his keeper. Do you think your wife would have been as kind if you were accused of something like this? Given the fact they had his DNA at the scene and witnesses of his driving her to that location?

    I would bet my house that that poor woman was not his first victim. He was too good at it. Too cool about it before and after the crime. I mean, as you pointed out, he walked away from it as though nothing wrong or bad had happened.

    My bet is that he does this to his wife as well.. Because there is no way that was his first time.
  22. Capracus Valued Senior Member

    It’s not about what his actual intentions were, it’s about what they could prove they were. Since he actually went to a location to pick up some items from another vehicle, he could argue that his decision to attack her was made at that location.
    Again, they could only charge him with what the witness could recollect. If there was another witness or security video to document the attack maybe such contact could have been shown, but there wasn’t.
    While the attack occurred in daylight, the actual site of the attack may have been secluded enough to avoid witnesses. But the way he left the scene, it didn't seem he was too concerned about the act being reported to police. Really odd.
    He may very well have had some practice with this behavior. Maybe he was inspired by this particular genre of porn.

    Choking women is all the rage. It's branded as fun, sexy 'breath play'


    Maybe the wife was a willing participant in his fetish as well.
  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    thats not many.
    i would hope the vetting/filtering processwas rigorous to ensure that 60 were of high quality for accurate and broard data.
    sexual harrasment is soo widespread and normalised in culture that if you justtake a pick off the top of the victims i think you wouldlose sight of an industry practice(which this item seems to be wishing to formulate)

    i am familiar withthe Hospo-industry
    hard partying isnot so much hard as regular socialisation with regular drinking.
    when ever you get into regular drinking you then statistically expose yourself to alcaholics binge and daily and lots of functional alcaholism.
    functional alcaholism and alcaholic binge drinkers tend to have behaviours that are against normal polite society.
    forcing their own will on others is common place as much as making themselves a victim(going to bars and getting willingly stupafied drunk and going home with strangers on a weekly or monthly basis).
    ive seen a lot of it.

    because this is clearly a culture issue and is driven by society at large asa form of cultural acceptance there is a specific need to address the culture in each society where the behaviour is taking place.
    the low wage culture and society of the USA which makes young vualnerable inexpereinced women grovel to old rich perverts in the food & beverage service is a culture.
    it is a normalised USA culture.
    it is something the USA people need to change as THIER culture.

    the whole tipping mechanism is built around slavery.
    enslaving the emotional servant to the whim of the customer.
    instead of leveraging good service & good products to good pricing.

    it is a destructive mechanism that enslaves and victimises the new employees while it makes profit for the businesses as they can pay less wages.

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