Jordan Peterson

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Seattle, Jan 27, 2018.

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  1. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Who said it was?
    Immutable?
    Sure, there's always Dunning-Kruger. That kind of confidence is due to a lack of understanding, not associated with success.
     
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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    You did.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Don't care. Common and significant.
    So we see that confidence is often associated with being a fuckup, a dangerously incompetent person who does not recognize their own incapability.

    Whether that is associated with success or not depends on other factors, in particular cases. Reagan, W, and Trump became Presidents of the United States of America - that seems reasonably successful to me, by common measure.
     
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  7. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    I really don't think I said belief was everything. Something about overcoming.
    If they're not immutable, they must be malleable and circumstantial.
    Dunno. Do you have studies detailing other predictive factors of success?
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Which is a moral indictment of the person harboring them. So?
    There are lots of them. Being born male is one, for example. Being tall and good-looking. Being able to postpone gratification. Having intelligence and ambition. Do we care, for some reason?
     
  9. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Not sure why you were disputing it as part of the circumstances.
    Just seeing if you ever support your claims. No harm either way.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Because it isn't. It's a characteristic of the person blaming.
    I'm the only one here who does. Even sometimes (like there) when I never made the claim - now that's service, eh?
     
  11. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    If it's not everything, then there are circumstances that prevent success, in spite of our best efforts and desires. Which means we rely on society as much as our own personal qualities.
     
  12. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    So you are willing to morally indict people for their own choices?
    Must have missed it.
    There are potentially insurmountable physical obstacles that could prevent specific successes. Bad eyes won't allow you to succeed as an air force pilot.
    Just no such social obstacles.
     
  13. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    There are no social obstacles? There were if you had Japanese ancestors in 1942. Just to give one example.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Why yes.
    Nonsense. There are far more social than physical obstacles to most ways of succeeding in the US.
     
  15. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    I'm sorry. Were we talking about 1942?
    Wasn't internment a physical obstacle?
    Unless their bad choices led to poverty?
    Nonsense.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Irrelevant.
    No. It's an obvious fact.
     
  17. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Similar forces are in place today, and no it wasn't just a physical barrier. Germans lost their jobs during WWI, blacks were excluded from bank loans, women aren't treated fairly in business. And our current president is a racist idiot who is currently preventing the success of refugees from Muslim countries, and is attempting to destroy the current success of young Hispanic immigrants.
     
  18. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    How?
    Can you demonstrate it?
    What current policies are racist? Does the US Constitution include any obligations to non-citizens?
     
  19. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    The immigration ban, the attack on DACA, ending the protected status of Salvadorans and Hatians after their earthquakes. Not dealing with police violence on blacks, indeed criticizing their activism by appealing to "law and order"....
     
  20. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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  21. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Yes it does. In fact it applies to everyone currently in the country or any US territory, both citizens and non-citizens.
     
  22. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Same countries Obama put on terrorist list?
    Prosecutorial discretion that is open to change?
    Temporary protected status that was set to expire anyway?
    What's wrong with law and order?
    Does that mean the CFPB can't handle enforcement itself?
    Anyone in a country, any country, much abide by its laws. No obligations to non-citizens are spelled out.
    Are you conflating the two?
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Sure.
    Not without money, resources, and upper level support.
    Too late for that. They break the law by breathing, and have since they were babies. So now what?
    Yes. Almost all of them, actually, in the Bill of Rights, and especially habeus corpus outside of it.
     
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