Jews

Discussion in 'History' started by arauca, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I agree, there really I only the human race, but some sub division do have gene pools that on average have common characteristic, most noticeable is skin color that is quite distinct from other sub groups but in the modern world a great deal of "mixing" has also occurred.

    Pray, tell what is this truth, the one Israelis are delaying that you arrogantly claimed to know better than they about what defines a Jew.
     
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  3. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    I confused you with Capracus, my bad.
     
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  5. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    I think one of the issues people might be having with the idea of recognizing Judaism as an ethnic national identity, is that they view their own cultures as secular and pluralized without realizing how far this is from genuinely being true, and they don't understand that many Jews don't find these cultures to be either appealing or inclusive even in the modern age. America, for instance, is still very much a devoutly religious Christian nation with an overwhelmingly Christian heritage and constant intrusions of the Christian church into affairs of the state. Ironically, that same Christian zealotry which drives so many Jews away from the idea of immigrating to the US, is also one of the chief sources of US backing for the Israeli state, even though the Jews get blamed and stereotyped for this support no differently than they were in Shakespeare's time. Culturally, America's a nation many around the globe wish to emulate on a certain level, but there are plenty of aspects in American culture and society that other freedom-loving people most certainly do not wish to duplicate or be a part of, and wouldn't even if every American was sworn to atheism from birth.
     
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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    A recent poll reported in the Washington Post turned up the amazing statistic that Jews are the least religious demographic group in America. Belief in God, the role of religion in their lives and attendance at worship services are only important to a small minority of them, notably the Chassidim.

    Although many in the American Jewish community feel strongly about their identity as Jews, that identity is not defined by religion. When offered a list of attributes and asked which were essential parts of being Jewish, the top four choices were:
    • 1. Remembering the Holocaust
    • 2. Leading an ethical and moral life
    • 3. Working for justice and equality
    • 4. Intellectual curiosity
     
  8. arauca Banned Banned

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    But the fundamentals from the Torah are implanted in them 3 of the 4 choices. which are older then the enlightenment period
     
  9. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    If you went around polling American Jews and asking them which figure they'd rather have removed from history, Einstein or Moses, I'd be very interested in seeing the results.
     
  10. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Whether deserved or not, Jews have a worldwide reputation for academic pursuits. Many would tell you that this tendency comes from a rabbinical tradition that encourages followers to ask questions and not simply to follow teachings blindly. However, it seems to me that when a rabbi expects you to ask questions, they also generally expect you to accept their answers, so it's not a true intellectual openness. I'd think the Jews' modern academic reputation stems from habits they picked up whilst living throughout Europe and the Middle East, being constantly placed in positions where only the most useful and capable amongst them were able to survive and raise families.
     
  11. arauca Banned Banned

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    In Judaism there are different sect. From young are a religious Jew is encouraged to read the Torah and uphold the holiday and celebrating the holidays is not only celebrate but commemorate the meaning. such as to live a righteous life . A secular Jew does not practice , he is a Jew by name only
     
  12. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Sure. But they regard these fundamentals as simply a good way to live, not necessarily something "divine" or "holy."

    Not true, unless you're an outsider wanting to marry into the tribe or something like that. Anyone can be a "rabbi" in the Jewish community, not just the guy at the temple with the formal title and the salary. Any scholar can be called a rabbi if he seems to be wise and a good communicator.

    So when a rabbi answers your questions, he's not at all taken aback if you question his answers. They'll be happy to go on like this all night. After all, this is the way knowledge is discovered, not by something you read in a book from the Bronze Age.

    Historians say that the Jews have been treated this way since they first appeared as a people.

    Even the ancient Egyptians weren't too happy with them. Only the Chinese treated them as equals. Other cultures have treated them with considerably more kindness than the Europeans and the people in the Middle East, but even the Americans have been hard on them... just not quite as hard as they were on people of African ancestry.

    Actually, Iran has the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside of Israel. There's even a Jewish guy in their parliament.

    You missed the point that "Jewish" is three somewhat different things: religion, ancestry, or community. You can call yourself a Jew if you have any one of those.

    As the survey demonstrated, most American Jews are not very religious, yet they are adamant about being classified as Jewish.

    Being "Chinese" is not about religion either, but plenty of people in America identify themselves as Chinese.
     
  13. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    He could also be a Jew by virtue of heritage, upbringing, culture, and happening to share a similar mindset, outlook and background in common with many other people who also calls themselves Jews. Even amongst the secular Jews, I'll bet most of them have a fair bit of experience with Jewish holidays, prayer services and the Hebrew language, just as many atheists of Christian descent still go to church every once in a while.

    Also the definition of Jew needs to be broadened beyond a specific race or religious view. There are lots of black American converts who don't have any known Jewish ancestry (although many of them believe themselves to have such ancestry all the same), and recently the Israeli state gave official recognition to several such groups. I see Judaism more as a sort of brotherhood, personally.
     
  14. arauca Banned Banned

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  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    You need to brush up on your grammar. "Hindi" is a language, or more properly in the terminology of linguists: Hindi and Urdu are two dialects of the Hindustani language.

    The religion is "Hinduism." A practitioner is a "Hindu."

    If you want to communicate in English, please use English grammar.
     
  16. HEQ Registered Member

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    Jews had big impact on eastern society as well. Loads of commies were Russian Jewish.
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    They were desperate after all the pogroms. They hoped that bringing down the Czars would make their lives easier.

    They didn't understand that antisemitism is a European attitude, not a Czarist attitude or even a Russian attitude. It was one of the defining traits of European Christendom since it was founded.

    There's a reason half the world's Jews live in America. We haven't exactly treated them like honored guests, but at least we haven't burned down their houses.
     
  18. HEQ Registered Member

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    You are right. Ideas of liberalism, freedom, equality was very alive in oppressed peoples minds. Jews were one of many fighting against old regime. Too bad human factor won and everything out turned out even worse.
    America was land of new begging and it wasn't only for Jews. If I recall correctly- there are more Armenians living in USA than in Armenia.
     
  19. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    More Irish than in Ireland.
     
  20. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Yup, but an even larger number of them fled to Israel and the west at the first opportunity, they weren't very welcome at home.

    I can't imagine a 20th century Czarist regime doing much better to be honest, especially if it were equipped with the killing tools of the machine age. Easy to forget just how bad the Czars were, although perhaps they would have killed more out of incompetence and economic mismanagement rather than by sending people to the gulags for not saluting with enough gusto.

    More than could possibly be crammed into all of Ireland if they all wanted to go back to living in the "old country".
     

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