Japanese N-Plant Explosion

Discussion in 'World Events' started by ULTRA, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    7,829
    As I said, even if you included it, it doesn't change the calculation by but one percent and cost is not used in figuring out Capacity Factor, so this is a red herring.
    The plants been paid for. Decommissioning rate recovery for Metropolitan Edison and Pennsylvania Electric ceased per PUC Orders on December 31, 2010 and Penn Elec’s final TMI-2 collection for $7.817 million occurred in 2009.

    Now it's just waiting to be decommissioned in parallel with TMI 1. TMI-2 has been defueled and decontaminated to the extent the plant is in a safe, inherently stable condition suitable for long-term management. This long-term management condition is termed post-defueling monitored storage, which was approved in 1993. There is no significant dismantlement underway. The current radiological decommissioning cost estimate is $836.9 million. The current amount in the decommissioning trust fund is $576.8 million, as of December 31, 2009.

    http://www.nrc.gov/info-finder/decommissioning/power-reactor/three-mile-island-unit-2.html

    http://www.efmr.org/files/TMI-2DFIPetition.pdf

    It absolutely does do that calculation.
    See page 46
    So, according to the document that I had previously linked to on Thermal Solar, at 85% capacity factor it would take building CSP plants covering an area of ~10 X 13 miles every year for 20 years in solar conditions equal to the desert Southwest.

    http://www.nrel.gov/csp/pdfs/32160.pdf

    Now significantly that document I linked to is nearly a decade old, and Solar Thermal is still in it's infancy which is why there isn't a lot of data on actual systems to determine capacity factors, cost per kWh and land/resource use, which is why I don't normally use Solar Thermal as an example. With some of the projects that will come on line in the next few years, we should have this kind of live data five or six years from now, but today the data is simply not that robust and that's because the technology is still evolving and the contribution of CSP for electrical generation, is less than 0.01% globally, with an installed capacity of only about 0.5 GW worldwide (based on 2008 data). A lot of figures you see are somewhat misleading because most Solar Thermal today is still mainly used for heating hot water and swimming pools, so if you are dealing with CSP you have to be sure you extract electricity generation from any general figures given for Solar Thermal.

    The loan gaurantees are only to cover delays in getting operational licencing.
    The liability damage the reactors can cause themselves are covered by the industry in a pool with a value of ~$10 Billion. So, liability risk up to that amount is covered and so far, that's been more than sufficient. The risk associated with loss of the cost of the plant itself is borne by both the investors and the consumers in the service area.

    And again you fail to provide DATA showing that the US national grid has significant excess baseload capacity.

    Indeed, the massive building of new baseload plants and intermediate/peaking plants we do each year show that simply isn't the case on a national level.

    New Baseload Coal Plants Commissioned in 2010 (the most in one year since 1985)
    Rodemacher(Brame) (700 MW)
    Comanche (850 MW)
    Iatan(850 MW)
    J K Spruce (820 MW)
    Oak Creek-Unit 1 (615 MW)
    Oak Grove (879 MW)
    Plumb Point (720 MW)
    Southwest (300 MW)
    Trimble (834 MW)
    Willmar (4 MW)
    WygenIII (110 MW)

    That's in addition to the 3 GWs of coal plants that were added in 2009 and the 4 GWs that are being built this year, or the ~25 GW of Natural Gas fired capacity added since 2008 with 7 more GWs under construction for this year, or the ~20 GW of Wind power added since 2008.

    Which over the last 3 years averages to about 18 GW per year of new generation capacity. On average about 17% of new plants replace existing plants, so that leaves about ~15 GW of net new generation capacity per year.

    http://www.netl.doe.gov/coal/refshelf/ncp.pdf

    The fact is, this much construction of new plants is based on our normal growth of ~2% of electrical demand per year, mainly driven by our growing population so that underlying growth in demand is not likely to stop, but if you add on top of the growth the required capacity to power 10% of our transportation system then we need to generate nearly 20% MORE electricity than we do today, or just a bit under 50% more new capacity per year for the next 20 years than we are already adding.

    So, if we are adding ~15 GW of net new capacity per year, then about 50% of that would be ~7 GW a year, and 5 new nukes a year is a bit low but still ~ equal to that, so it would appear my rough calculations are maybe a bit low, but still reasonably accurate as an indication of magnitude of additional capacity needed.

    Arthur
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If a decade old publication has what you consider to be enough info to have done "the calculation", you have to think of some other reason you used wind, PV, etc, in the calculations you did, and the other people doing these calculations did on this forum, without ever using thermal solar. The fact that you were aware of the issue simply makes the part about having left it out more pointed - we see that neglect or ignorance fails to explain the matter.

    btw: CSP refers to Concentrating, not necessarily Thermal, solar power - the lumping of all types of concentrating plants into one estimate is not the same as doing the calculation with (say) a specific form of thermal , and doing that creates considerable doubt in the reader about the validity of any numbers being thrown around - especially efficiency numbers.

    So we are in basic agreement for much of this - the risk has been limited, by government intervention, to maybe 10 billion from a common pool. The consumers in the service area bear significant liability and risk, thereby relieved from the investors. And the costs of building delays, licensing problems, etc, are borne by the government.

    And they still have problems lining up investors. Because these plants can't charge enough to make them good bets, even with much of the risk premium ( and waste handling, security, etc) externalized.
    The market for juice on the grid is national - my local nuke is wired into it. Nevertheless, it finds itself with excess capacity at regular intervals and times - so much that it markets the stuff at reduced rates to industry. Other nukes elsewhere do the same, if my local newspaper is accurate in this matter.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
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  5. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    What is your problem Ice?

    I gave two examples, one conventional, one renewable, to give relatively easy to visualize numbers of new generating devices just to show the magnitude of the increase needed, it wasn't ever intended as a blueprint for what we would actually build, and only a dolt would think that's what I was doing, and so since it wasn't a plan for the future, but just a scale, nothing was left out.
    I'm under no obligation to figure it out what it would take for every friggin energy source. Indeed, I'd like to see where you have ever posted a link to a better information source on the potential of Solar Thermal Energy than the one I posted.

    Put up, or shut up.


    Yes, but not relevant because according to the report I used, had you bothered to read it, they stated:

    So their analysis was based on specific form of Solar Thermal generation.

    Not really.

    http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_brief/power_grid.cfm

    Minor amounts of regional excess capacity are irrelevant when you are talking about increasing the amount of electrical power generated by 20%.

    The FACT is we have been increasing our generating capacity by 2% per year for more than the last decade, so NO, there is not a significant amount of excess generation capacity in the system.

    Indeed, the amount of capacity in 1998 was 744 GWs, by 2009 it was 916 GWs, or a 23% increase in 12 year, or ~2% per year, just like I pointed out in the previous post (an addition of an average of 14.3 GW net new capacity per year).

    What that says is that the power companies have no choice but to keep increasing generation capacity due to increasing demand and thus if we add ~50% more demand each year over the next 20 years needed to move 10% of our tranportation system off of oil then we will have to add even more capacity than we are doing now. There is no free lunch.

    http://www.eia.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat4p2.html

    Arthur
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2011
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  7. katsung47 Banned Banned

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    HAARP was activated on 3/11.

    Quote, "US government takes down HAARP website to conceal evidence of US weather modification and earthquake inducing warfare.
    Monday, April 18th, 2011

    ……………..

    Scientists at the HAARP institute discovered that a 2.5 Hz radio frequency is the signature frequency of an earthquake. Since this discovery the HAARP phased array antennas have been used by the US military to beam the earthquake frequency into the ionosphere and the ionosphere reflects it back to Earth – penetrating as deeply as several kilometers into the ground, depending on the geological makeup and subsurface water conditions in a targeted area.. By beaming the frequency at a specific trajectory HAARP can trigger an earthquake any place on Earth. A short burst isn’t enough to disturb solid matter (the Earth crust) so they keep beaming the 2.5 Hz earthquake frequency for hours or days – until the desired effect is achieved.

    ......



    The Japan 9.0 earthquake offered the most damaging evidence of the US government using HAARP to induce major damage and destruction against a foreign state. HAARP’s magnetometer data showed the World that HAARP (jointly managed by the US Air Force and the US Navy) began broadcasting the earthquake inducing frequency of 2.5 Hz on March 8, 2011 and continued to broadcast the frequency for the entire days of March 9, 2011 and March 10, 2011. HAARP wasn’t turned off until 10 hours after the Japan 9.0 magnitude earthquake that was triggered on Friday, March 11, 2011 at 05:46:23 UTC.

    ……………..


    http://letsrollforums.com/u-s-government-takes-t25138.html
     
  8. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,194
    Would you please stop posting this bull shit in every thread you can find. You are crazy and everyone here agrees with me. GET HELP!!!!!
     
  9. katsung47 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    39
    1. You don't represent everyone.

    2. You can leave it alone if you don't like it. Nobody force you read it.

    3. You behaved like a rogue or a dictator. If you don't like Pizza, would you also order Pizza Hut to close?

    ---------------

    671. Climate weapon (5/31/2011)

    In last article, I talked about the Feds planned a case in week-ends (5/22-5/23). They arranged a sudden trip for my wife on that week -ends. There were some events I think was part in their plot.

    1. 5/21, Saturday, the Judgment day that the evangelical broadcaster Harold Camping had declared.

    2. 5/21, an Icelandic volcano erupted. It spews ash and soot into the air. It was the volcano's largest eruption in 100 years. Some European countries halted the air flights.

    3. 5/21. A magnitude 3.6 earthquake shook San Francisco Bay Area. There had been no reports of damages or injuries.

    4. 5/22. A massive tornado attacked Joplin, killed more than one hundred people. It was an EF-5, the strongest rating assigned to tornadoes and also was the deadliest single twister since the weather service began keeping official records in 1950.

    Feds like to play the role of God. It seems they prefer to use evangelists to reach their goal. If you remember another evangelical broadcaster Pat Robertson who had predicted that Lord told him Bush would be elected President twice in a overwhelming victory. It was a typical story how Feds used religion and superstition to cover up a rigged election. Since modern technique can alter weather and set off natural disaster such like volcano eruption and earthquake, it's more frequently for the Feds to guise these artificial disaster in the name of Mother Nature.

    That's why we saw earthquake, volcano eruption and tornado in 5/21 and 5/22. If the 5/21 framed case had gone through successfully, I believe the S.F. Bay Area earthquake and Iceland volcano eruption would develop to a very big one (to the level of 3/11 Fukushima earthquake), plus that strongest-ever tornado, would have made the world a dooms day like end times. It's what the Feds want - distract. Some believers of the "Rapture" even had spent all their savings before the "judgment day", what else would they care?

    As for that strongest tornado, I believe it was Pentagon's work. They took time to test their climate weapon. Try to promote it to a weapon that can destroy as much as they can.

    Europe's economic powerhouse, Germany, announced plans yesterday (5/30) to abandon nuclear energy over the next 11 years, in the wake of Japan's Fukushima disaster. It is an abrupt turn for Germany because just five months ago, it pushed through a plan to extend the life span of the country's nuclear reactors.

    Why it's Germany, not Britain, French, Belgian, Holland ....?

    My interpretation: German, as well as Japan, is a defeated country in World War ll. Both are still under occupation of US troops. When Germany realizes US is using climate weapon and they could be the same extortion target like Japan. They choose to abandon the nuclear energy to keep their sovereignty.

    A news two years ago has reported the intention to extort Japan with HAARP caused earthquake. At that time, the news might be viewed as crazy for some people. When the 3/11 earthquake took place, that news has been proved true. Now it’s for Iran war – to wage a public panic on coming “dirty bomb attack”.

     
  10. katsung47 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    39
    Some information for reference.

    Quote, "Japan’s government, threatened with more HAARP attacks, pays 60 trillion yen to Feds
    Posted by benjamin
    April 5, 2011

    The cowardly Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan handed 60 trillion yen over to the Federal Reserve Board crime syndicate immediately after his country was attacked with HAARP and nuclear terror, according to Japanese security police sources. The extortion money was paid off following threats to use HAARP to cause Mt. Fuji to erupt. For those of you still too brainwashed to believe such a thing is possible, please take a look at the following transcript available on the US Defense Department’s home page:

    http://benjaminfulford.net/2011/04/...e-haarp-attacks-pays-60-trillion-yen-to-feds/
     
  11. katsung47 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    39
    673. Another plot of Nuclear attack (6/20/2011)

    Watch the following news censored by mainstream media. Notice the date.

    1. FAA issued "No fly zone" over the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant on 6/6.

    The Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant filed an Alert with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission on 6/7. It means FAA knew the neclear alarm in advance and knew it earlier than the NRC which directly oversees the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant. Is that strange? It reminds people that Al Qaida issued warn that they would activate a nuke attack if Bin Laden was killed five days before "Operation Geronimo".

    2. There was no report from the mainsteam media about this event. Compare to the news with Japan Fukushima nuclear leaking it is a blank. Remember it happens in USA!

    3. Al Qaida No.2 - Zawahri threatened to destroy US and its allies on 6/8.

    I think the Feds planned another nuke attack around 6/10 after the soured 5/21 plot. (see: 671. Climate weapon (5/31/2011)). The nuclear bomb attack in the name of Al Qaida is an already done project. Each time they need a nuclear panic background for the public. That's why in this year we saw rare three incidents on nuclear power plants. All related to climate weapons.

    1. 3/11 Japan Fukushima power plant damaged by the largest earthquake and tsunami in Japanese history.

    2. 4/27, Two nuclear reactors in Virginia were shutdown in an unprecedentary tornado storms.

    3. 6/7 - 6/14, no fly zone and level 4 emergency alarm in two Nebraska nuclear plants due to the historical big flooding.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2011
  12. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    Just for grins and giggles, try googling katsung47. This guy posts these numbered, paranoid rambles everywhere. Even on sites that have nothing to do with politics-like a gaming forum, it seems.
    The evidence of this one guy's refusal to take antipsychotics is all over the internet.
    I figured he was schizophrenic...but maybe he's just manic all the time and never sleeps....

    Oh, and he's a stoner.
    Dude, the pot is definitely making you worse.
    Quiddit.

    The thing is, is that Katsung appears to have intelligence; it's just getting mulched by whatever disorder's popping his circuits. Failure to take meds leads to more brain erosion. The type of brain erosion will depend on his specific disorder; schizophrenics who remain untreated lose gray matter density, bipolars who go untreated have cavitation in the brain sinuses...and, hmm hippocampal deterioration? or am I getting that switched with PTSD...
    Meh, at any rate, the condition, untreated, will worsen over time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2011

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