I've never understood why the death of Jesus is important.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ivor Bigun, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. river

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    Good point , Michael 345 .

    But liberty has been so distorted by lawyers to the point that , liberaty has been whittled down to not much of anything . The constitution means little nowadays .
     
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  3. river

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    Absolutely

    Jesus death was important because he sacraficed himself for all siners but also was resurrected , the rebirth of the soul .

    Yet after this , resurrection he rebeled against his god .
     
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  5. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    I do not believe we have the liberty we could & should have yet liberty is much more than a buzz word.
    I do not know whether you might have explained better. If you do not wear seat belts simply because you do not like it, that is not good. If you have thought it thru & decided it is best for you to not wear them, you should not be forced to wear them.

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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    We have some.

    Not complete. This is a good thing.

    You reap many, many benefits from living in a society, for example, roads to drive your car on, cars, gasoline, police. You join society willingly by living in the country you are in. And that means you have a social contract to abide by the laws of that society. Some of them are to protect you from yourself; such as laws against not wearing a seatbelt.

    In a society, you don't get to pick and choose which rules you'll abide by. The guy in the house next to you might choose to not abide by the rule preventing him from storing radioactive materials in his garage.
     
  8. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    I sympathize with your experience but laws should not force or coerce me to do things for my safety. There should be laws to protect you from me & me from you but not protecting me from me. I am an intelligent educated adult & do not need daddy to make me protect myself.
    I & 2 people I know have been in automobile accidents in which we would have been hurt much worse & maybe killed if we had been wearing seat belts. 1 of those involved my uncle who should not have been driving due to fatigue & sleepiness. It was stupid & careless of him to drive like that yet fortunate he was not wearing his seat belt.
    I have a medical reason to not wear them but I would not anyway because I determine it is safer for me to not use them.
    If you as a free adult decide it is best for you to wear them, that should be up to you & it should be my decision whether I use them.
    Seatbelts are among the least factors in automobile injury. Rather trying to force adults to wear them, we should be doing much more about speeding, drunk driving, stupid road & street design & other problems. And automobiles should be made much sturdier as they used to be.

    There are reports on the numbers of people who died without seatbelts & numbers of people who lived with seatbelts but I never heard of any reports on the numbers of people who lived without seatbelts & those who died with seatbelts.

    If we are to force adults to do or not do things for their personal safety & so as to not be a burden on your taxes, making driving automobiles illegal would be much more effective than forcing seatbelt use. As would banning mountain climbing, football & many other dangerous activities.


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    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    For one, because you are allowing yourself to become a burden on society in the form of medical care which you would not need if you were protected.

    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    There is absolutely no question that seat belts have not only saved tens of thousands of lives, but that they are one of the single greatest causes of reduced injury and death in automotive history.
     
  10. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

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    Simple. If you have a medical reason not to wear a seat belt any doctor will give you a exemption card

    We are. Unfortunately we have yet to invent a smart seat belt smarter than a stupid driver who is drunk or speeding

    One which is capable of buckling itself around you microseconds after the accident. Closest is the airbag which dispite its problems (which are human manufacturing problems - not concept problems) drives up the cost of the car as well as your other brilliant idea of making cars more sturdy would

    I never owned a car with a air bag as they came in well after my car buying days

    I would be curious if there are any stats on those who do not wear seatbelts because daddy says they must, remove airbags because daddy says they must be in new cars

    Currently my transport consists of a 250cc motorbike

    I have the liberty of using this transport dispite when I worked in Accident and Emergency we referred to motorbike riders as "organ donors"

    My safety features consists of extreme defensive riding and a helmet. Unfortunately they do not protect me from becoming a organ donor due to a genuine accident or stupid driver

    But hey can't have everything but I do have the liberty to choose to ride

    I suggest you obtain the medical exemption from wearing a seatbelt or my suggested sign. One or the other as per your liberty to do so

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  11. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    That was only a small aside to my main points.

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    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  12. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

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    True but it would stop the going to court

    I just recalled when I worked as safety officer on oil rigs in the oceans we had a exemption sheet and worker could fill out and gain exemption from wearing a hard hat

    All they had to do was to subject their head to the helmet testing standards. If their heads passed the standards no need for helmet

    Test included
    • A drop from hight
    • Penetrating
    • Electrical conductivity
    • Weather resistance
    Funny nobody took the test

    I suspect if a exemption from wearing a seat belt entailed subjecting a body to the forces a seat belt protects you from nobody would take that test

    How about flights? How many planes take off with how many passengers without a belt fastened?

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    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  13. Willamina Tyndale Registered Member

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    So funny. I nearly wet my panties.
     
  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    There are huge differences between automobiles & airplanes. 1 being the individual is not responsible for only their safety but also the effect they will have on others on an airplane.
    On the job safety is also very different tho sometimes that goes too far.

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  15. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    I paid out loads of death benefits to insureds who didn't wear their seat belts. They were truly free, to fail at life, to fail at having a future, to fail at doing something so elementary that children do it routinely.
     
  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    You do not know they failed at all that. You do not know the majority would have lived with seatbelts. You do not know how many people lived because they did not use seatbelts.
    Benefits were also paid to very many who did use seatbelts.
    Children do it because they are forced to because they are children not adults.
    Money is not a good reason to force adults to do such things. If it were, it would be better to do away with most personal automobiles.
    Benefits are also paid due to people smoking in bed & using ladders. Insurance is no justification for trying to take away people's right to decide things for themselves.
    Insurance is a scam anyway.
    Seatbelts are a minor factor in injuries compared to speeding & drunk driving. We cannot force people to not speed & not drive drunk so we pretend to care about it by trying to force people to use seatbelts. Utterly frigging stupid.

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  17. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  18. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Well gee, I guess I shouldn't have wasted my time going over the accident investigations, should I.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    We do. We have a very large data set, and we can see the statistically significant effect that seatbelts have.
    They're not just guessing you know.

    By 'we' you mean you. You speak for yourself only.
     
  20. Michael 345 In Aust : found it :) Valued Senior Member

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    Seat belts save lives regardless of the cause of the accident
    True it is extremely hard to force stupid people not to drink drive or speed
    Punishment in the form of fines or jail is for the crime BUT is not a cure for stupidity judging by the numbers of re-offenders
    Personally I really don't care if you speed or drink drive or even combine the two in your quest to win a Darwin award
    Actually it's probably not a very original method, not creative enough
    What I do care about are are those left behind with their grief
    And even worse those killed by your stupidity with their families and friends left behind

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  21. TheFrogger Registered Senior Member

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    It doesn't matter who died, the important thing is it was recorded. We now have a record of generations. Jesus, I beleive, developed our understanding of days, weeks, months and years.
     
  22. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Please don't exaggerate. My wife died with a seatbelt on the other person flew out through the windshield because the windshield flew out due to the impact . She died due her chest was broken by the steering wheel. Let forget that the point is the word FREEDOM is buzzword . I can mention many ancient and present laws in a large society reduce its value . LAWS are made to reduce FREEDOM.!!!!!!
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Of course seat belts save lives and only an idiot would deny that. And yes there are probably isolated incidents where a seat belt may contribute to a death, but just so obviously they save many many more lives. The same of course with air bags. And again in some isolated incident, an air bag may contribute to a death, but again, like seat belts they save countless many more lives.
    The general populace needs laws to protect themselves and others due to the stupid idiots, sadly mostly young, that drive while intoxicated with Alcohol and/or drugs, and the irresponsible that speed well in excess of a safe speed, that puts there own life and others in danger.

    Laws are necessary...we have traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, they are necessary to protect us from ourselves.
     

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