I've never met a Christian

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    You clearly have fixed prejudices about religion.

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    Like which ? . You have your view and I have mine . You
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I do find the Universe to be the most democratic construct ever

    EVERYBODY is subject to the same rules

    Thought bubble

    Perhaps religion is the way believers try to circumvent reality

    "We have a god so we have a better place to go after we're dead naaa naaa"

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  5. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Christians are dumb or deceivers, one or the other. same with muslims. what they all have in common is they are more primordial or primitive on the soul level. but that's the level mentally and spiritually on the level of the demiurge which is evil. what religionists usually worship as the best are demigods, base creators and their corrupt ways, it placates their lesser and shadow sides as well. it means, they are more of this universe than they are from elsewhere, so essentially corrupt/evil but also just as much or more power as good because this is it's own domain/home. the ones who are good souls just don't realize they are seeking the real god, so ethical, humble and true tolerance but on the physical plane are labeled all the same because of ignorance. but they are not the same and serve or in league with different gods/creator. the good ones make the religion seem decent or good enough but it's not what it seems to be. they are not the same.

    this is why anyone with a tad of a clue or realization of the game or system is a threat and ostracized or disenfranchised like the gnostics because though it may not be the whole truth, is truer nonetheless. that is a threat to deceivers and the corrupt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Gotta love generalizations.
     
  8. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    That's generally right

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  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm. I wonder which one I am? I don't really make a point of deceiving people - so I guess I must be dumb.

    Well, I guess I can live with that. I seem to get by with what limited brains I have.
     
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

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    yeah, maybe since you missed the part where i said that even though people can be labeled under a certain religion, they may not be subscribing to the same ethics and or god. do you agree that slavery is okay? that religious intolerance is okay? that discriminating against sexual orientation is okay?

    do you agree with the old testament god? why don't you criticize that god as the gnostics did? don't bother with the usual unjustified excuses since it is supposedly god after all, because that's all they are, excuses. here is the usual one: jesus came to do away with the old law but tacitly, what god said and did was still justified because it is god. that's condoning, btw. can't use the excuse that it was the culture of the time either because, again, it is god condoning and orchestrating such things, not man, according to the religion. that's how man justifies using religion.

    if you don't, then you got your answer. if you do, then you got your answer too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  11. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Have you considered that if you would not been born in t6he Judeo-Christian society but born in a Jungle where thy do not profess , Judeo-Christian-Muslim God . Your mother would be carrying water from the river, you would be barely be clothed bare hunting animals for food and living in a hut with Polish air conditioner. I don't know how old you are , but your mental expression tell you must be very young.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope.
    Nope.
    Nope.
    Never met God, and the Bible is almost certainly filled with errors. The Old Testament, for example, started off as an oral tradition - and nothing is less reliable. If even 25% is accurate (i.e. represents real events accurately) I'd be surprised. So I can't say if I agree with the "old testament god" or not.
    So you think Christians have two gods - one old and one new? I don't know of anyone who believes that, but if you would like to, that's fine by me. (And I am sure somewhere in the world, someone else believes that as well.)
    Well, no, that's according to you, not "the religion." (Not even sure which one you are talking about; there are about 43,000 different Christian sects in the world.) But again, if you believe that, it's fine with me.
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This is something I don't understand. Why do people feel that, unless you're absolutely devoted to every single word of the Bible, you're a hypocrite?
    They can't understand personal interpretation?

    Do they apply the same level of absolutism to every source? The Driver's Manual?

    "I see so many drivers who turn their lights on well before dusk. The Driver's Manual clearly says you should turn them on at a half hour before sunset.

    People who ignore that rule are hypocrites and should not call themselves drivers.

    Worse, this manual was written by the highest authority in the land - the MOT - and they say that every word in the manual is true. Therefore, these drivers clearly do NOT support their government. That makes them anarchists."
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    And often it's even odder than that. Greatest I Am often reads the Bible, comes up with some cockamamie interpretation, then claims unless you believe HIS silly interpretation you are a hypocrite. "Unless you regularly kill your own sons, you are not a Christian and are a HYPOCRITE!"

    Well, as I've said many times, I can definitely live with people like that thinking I am a hypocrite. Means I'm doing something right.
     
  15. Thomas Cranmer Registered Member

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    I think you are correct. In my street, we get regular visits from the JWs and as I spend a few hours in my front yard at the weekends, I've noticed that if they don't get an answer from a house, the next week, they try that house again, missing out the other houses. They rarely visit my house, so I'm pretty darn sure they have me on their black list too. Perhaps they have some kind of rating system.
     
  16. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

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    I have a sign on my door:

    Our dogs are fed on the bodies of Mormon missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses. Do you want to stay for lunch?
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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  18. Seaman Registered Member

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    The Bible is the source now, not any organisation, so you are correct to use it.
     
  19. birch Valued Senior Member

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    do you go to klan rallies? if not, why not? what if you have some beliefs in common but not all? would you call yourself a member of the kkk?

    are you a democrat or a republican? don't you have something in common with both? how do you choose what to identify yourself as?

    people usually don't make the mistake of identifying with an organization or idea that has polar opposite values within itself. it's just moot then.

    religious texts represents a value system. it is not a store where you pick items randomly and call yourself a christian. if that's the case, what distinguishes you from a christian that can find texts in the bible that condone rape, pedophilia, racism, murder, slavery etc and tout that to be representative and endorsed by christianity?

    if you are both christians, then christianity has no meaning whatsoever if it's contradicting eachother. one of those contradicting values is either christian or not. they both cannot be and if it is considered to be, then the way it works is the most evil value trumps as the winner because clearly a rapist, murderer, human trafficker etc is still such even if they do good or commit more acceptable acts in some other way.

    this is the reason why so many conservative assholes can identify as christians. there are atheist conservatives too but really there is no difference in their values from religious conservatives. the only difference between a atheist conservative and a religionist is one does not take responsibility for their sins and blames the devil. the other just shifts the blame, usually unfairly, onto another group, person, meme etc like republicans.

    do you ever question why there are so many people who staunchly identify themselves as christians who actively preach and practice bigotry, racism, religious intolerance, promote misogyny, promote pedophilia, protect and endorse oppression and even the worst immorality, devalue women etc? you don't find that the least bit suspect or raises any eyebrows?

    i find christians really peculiar. if you tell a christian that you really can't blame the devil for the evil of humanity, they are offended or especially if you say humans are the devil also. i didn't lay the blame on christians specifically or single out any one person, just humanity itself. i find it peculiar that so many christians are attracted to a religion that supposedly is about morality but they are identifying with the religion for the antithesis of it. they don't actually want to improve morally at all. they blame it on some imaginary devil.

    then because they can't deny the truth on it's face, they react with the onslaught that you are capable of the worst evil too. i find that type of reaction pretty key and christians reveal their weak moral threshold in this way. No, not everyone is capable of the same type or degree of evil because not everyone will conceive of it. there is a spectrum of all possible extremes but it's still a choice. I've known christians specifically to react this way and that is not to improve ethics but to excuse moral weakness and immorality by forcing the idea that every wrong or sin is evil in the same degree. My stepfather was the same way and had the same sentiment. how else was he going to justify himself and not feel guilty as a fuking rapist unless he insists all sins are equal? it's extremely dishonest. the mother's take was slightly different in that she blamed the devil and it was not him, so he's not really guilty. I've only known religionists, specifically christian and not just the examples of the people i referred to but many, to use this type of reasoning primarily in this way.

    they were implying that it's the devil or fallen angels that are demonic, not people yet people are the ones committing these wrongs. so if you are honest that it's people who are guilty themselves, then you are not going along with their holier than thou cognitive dissonance of humanity so will use you as some moral scapegoat to degrade and project YOU are the most capable of the most evil act too because apparently they must be really guilty of something terribly heinous to be that defensive. they wouldn't even be that defensive if they were actually sorry because they wouldn't be as guilty then. it's motivated by a false ego that can't reconcile with integrity secretly embracing sin.

    If someone told me that humans are the embodiment of evil and are soley responsible and there is not an actual devil to blame (just metaphor), my first reaction wouldn't be to defensively state who said that is capable of the worst evil too. it denotes a reactionary idea that people should excuse the evil or weakest aspect inside them or not really have to take responsibility for it. if i were to react that way, it would be with the motive to excuse the worst evil possible. i would only do that if i wanted to excuse moral failings in myself too or even nurse it in some way.

    if you identify as a christian, it really should be raising your eyebrows more than anyone else if your values are the complete opposite. hello?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  20. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm guessing out on a thin limb here but maybe those pets are in the main politicians and in particular American and there are votes in the first part and the second part they keep hidden

    In Australia we are not so blatant about the religion

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  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. Never been to a Klan rally. I am sure I have some beliefs in common with people who are Klansmen, but we don't share any major Klan-like beliefs.
    I am registered as an independent. I have something in common with both. I am sure you do as well.
    ?? I identify as an independent; that group has a lot of polar opposite values within itself. I am also a skydiver, even though many skydivers have values that are polar opposites to mine.

    There are Muslims dedicated to peace; there are Muslims dedicated to blowing themselves up and taking as many infidels with them as possible. There are Christians that support gay marriage, and there are Christians that consider gay marriage to be evil incarnate. There are atheists who are terrorists (Tamil Tigers) and atheists who worship at Unitarian churches and pray for peace.
    It is, in fact, just that. No one sane believes in the whole of the Bible. And the history of Christianity is the history of people picking (and interpreting) sections of the Bible randomly and creating whole new religions that surround it.
    My beliefs. Just as democrats are not all defined by David Duke, who was both a democrat and a Grand Wizard of the KKK. Just as all Americans are not defined by Trump.
    That's fine; believe whatever you like.
    Because most people in the US are Christians. If you went to the Middle East, you'd find that most evil people were Muslim. If you went to India, you'd find that most evil people are Hindu. If you went to a mostly black neighborhood, you'd find that most evil people are black.

    That does not mean that Christians, or Muslims, or Hindus, or blacks, are evil. It just means that some of all of them are. And if almost everyone is black, that's where most of that evil will be expressed as well.
     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    On the contrary, in the Bible stories Jesus came to tell the Jews that they got it wrong - i.e. that they were following the letter of the law rather than the spirit - i.e. they were cherry-picking which values to embrace. If He existed, and if He came back today, He would be telling Christians the same thing. Far from being unusual, it seems to be standard procedure for people with doctrinaire beliefs.
     

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