'It's a child not a choice...but not if you were raped'

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by visceral_instinct, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    Hear hear!
     
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  3. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    The bible says you aren't a person until you take a breath.
     
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  5. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    But then comes the thing about skin breathing right?
     
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  7. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    You can argue that a foetus is always taking part in gaseous exchange though as its cells respire.
     
  8. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Where do you see that its disregarded? We are discussing the topic with people we disagree with their opinion is not being disregarded. I have said plenty of times its fine to believe abortion wrong, it means they will never have an abortion. What I disagree with is other's attempting to make it illegal for others strictly based on their personal ethics. Go back and read the thread, Signal and I have been going at it for threads and pages past.
     
  9. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    But that is what I am talking about.

    Go back to page twenty-five and read my story and read about how if I wasn't born there would be a numerous amount of people dead over my non-existence.
     
  10. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    But you were born. If you make it you pass. If you didn't there isn't anything to discuss. The unborn don't ruminate how they could have been a contender.
     
  11. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    The thing that you may have looked over is that if I was killed as a fetus, who would be there to save that child from drowning? I looked back and forth consecutively, thinking I would drown saving the child but decided that even if I was to drown, she would still be alive if I tried hard enough so I took the risk. We both ended up alive. Do you think that event would have happened if I was killed just because I was a fetus because of a rape? As I said before, people do not seem to realize how one life can effect another person's life. Same for the people I saved from committing suicide.
     
  12. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    But then you could argue that they never had a chance to argue and I am one of the "could be" unborn people thus making this whole argument about them not being a contender false. I was one of those who could have been killed as a fetus. You think a fetus can talk? They surely can breath if you consider the fact that they have skin. Skin can breath. Did you not know that? I am not going for or against abortion. I am however letting you know the facts of some situations and that they are indeed existent, otherwise you wouldn't even have seen the definition of fetus be created now would you? It's just something to think about.
     
  13. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    First of all you wouldn't know what you would or could have done. Everything you say is a measure of how you judge your life in hindsight the unborn are only potentials, if it doesn't come into being its equivalent to having never come into existence. You could decide that if someone decides to never have children then they don't know what they would have contributed to the world. You could take that further and say if I had walked down this street and not that what difference would it have made.

    The point is that your mother decided to keep you and not have an abortion. She made a choice.

    IceLight: But then you could argue that they never had a chance to argue and I am one of the "could be" unborn people thus making this whole argument about them not being a contender false. I was one of those who could have been killed as a fetus. You think a fetus can talk? They surely can breath if you consider the fact that they have skin. Skin can breath. Did you not know that? I am not going for or against abortion. I am however letting you know the facts of some situations and that they are indeed existent, otherwise you wouldn't even have seen the definition of fetus be created now would you? It's just something to think about.

    I am arguing that they never had a chance nor a choice. You could have been but you weren't so you are. There isn't anything magical about that.
    A fetus cannot talk, think nor feel. A fetus isn't conscious. And no they cannot breath.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  14. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    Your right I wouldn't know. But then again, how could I know if I was never born is where it all eventually comes back to logically.

    Doesn't mean it is wrong right? As I have said before, even research has it's own bias and opinions. We don't disregard research just because it has bias and opinions right?

    Exactly?

    I think you got my point, to a degree... One step could mean the difference of life or death in a emergency situation.

    Yes she did, but this is irrelevant but somewhat relevant to what I am discussing right now. We are not on the same page.
     
  15. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    That's not a real breath. A foetus isn't an independent being, so it falls under the control of the mother. It is literally the mother's body, to kill or nurture as she sees fit.
     
  16. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    You want to know why the made "The shoes that can breath!" quote for shoes? Skin can breath. And your right. Just like we have a choice of murder, we also have a choice of abortion. We also have a choice to have protected or unprotected sex and have a choice to also keep or not a keep a child that was caused from a rape. We can also prevent ourselves from even being raped. That doesn't mean that you will never be raped but a person who says "Your a *****." is pretty much asking for conflict are they not? Not that rape is the right way to handle them, but still... When there is a problem, there is ALWAYS a better way to handle things.

    I think everyone here can conclude that cussing at someone increases the amount of hostility that will follow you later on correct? Newton's third law. With every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
     
  17. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    And what if the aborted fetus was going to be a serial killer? That argument doesn't work. The fact is an unwanted pregnancy rarely has a successful outcome in terms of a well adjusted individual. If we value children, we should only have them when we are truly prepared to have them, mentally, physically, and financially.
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Its neither. Its simply how you are looking back on your life. Looking back on ones life isn't research. You cannot know for sure if the person who's life you had saved wouldn't have lived anyway if you were taken out of the equation.

    No its not irrelevant. Your mother's choice is exactly what's relevant precisely because she had a choice. What is not relevant are hypotheticals that cannot be proven or disproven.
     
  19. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    Let's see how long you can live that way... Why do we cover our mouths when yawning? It was thought that your soul could leave you through your breath.
     
  20. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    Let's see how long you can live without having anything but your mouth breath then. Contradicted right? Our body would not like not being able to breath.
     
  21. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    Doesn't research technically require one to first start looking at their life to relate themselves to others and figure out how to problem solve situations?

    She was already close to being under water and by the time her baby-sitter noticed, it would have been too late. But yes, you still realize there is that possibility as well!

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    Just because it cannot be proven or dis proven doesn't mean it is false.
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    No it doesn't.

    So what. You still don't know what would have happened if you were not there.

    If you cannot prove it or disprove it then there isn't much to discuss in terms of 'truth'.
     
  23. IceLight020 Registered Senior Member

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    Based on what criteria?

    I can conclude she would be dead considering how much of her body was underwater and considering I have very well constructed photographic memory. It was an important event to me.

    Thomas Theorem - "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences." - W. I. Thomas
     

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