It is OK to be gay?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by cosmictraveler, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    24,132
    How does it not work? They can still reproduce (unless they suffer from infertility problems). Ergo, it does work.

    Their culture? You mean like the culture of the society they happen to be living in?

    How is "it" wrong? To quote Buffalo (from the other homosexuality thread), "they are what they are". You think it is wrong because you are homophobic. You are scared of homosexuals, for reasons yet unknown to any of us. People always tend to hate what they fear. You are the one with the problem bud, not the homosexuals. You really should see someone about that homophobia though.

    *Sigh*

    Homosexuality also exists in nature Norse. Google it. I would usually never encourage someone to simply 'google', but in your case, an exception needs to be made.

    You state you were naturally born a heterosexual. The same can also be said for homosexuals. And to repeat the obvious, homosexuals can also 'reproduce' if they so choose. We are not flies that must mate before death, Norse. We humans choose when to reproduce and sometimes we choose how.

    If that were the case, then all those homosexuals who grew up in straight laced, Christian or Muslim or Jewish households are.. still homosexual.... hmmm hang on!

    Seriously Norse, you're reaching. Where do you think homosexuals come from? If it is a 'mutation' in the body, then they are born with it, as in it occurred naturally. Get it?... Can you make the connection?..
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    Cant get angry with NorseFire he is just showing what he was taught.
     
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  5. mouse can't sing, can't dance Registered Senior Member

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    What makes you think you have the authority to command me?

    Self rule? Good luck with that one, but, personally, I think you'll fail miserably. You seem to put yourself in a position of authority over others (may it be me, a stranger posting on the same forum, or 50 percent of the population known as women). You seem to be unable to understand the fundamentals of a modern state. From my perspective, you seem completely unfit to be able to live in a society that is built upon the principle of rational self rule.

    I note that you didn't present any evidence for your claims.

    That's not the point. Women, homosexuals, or anyone else for that matter, should be able to go for the career they desire.

    For starters:
    To the others in this thread: excuse me for straying horribly off-topic.
     
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  7. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    i will have to disagree with you, despit being openly bi sexual, i do think that homosexuality should be kept out of class rooms, for the simple reason, would you want your children being taught that homosexuality is normal when in fact its not, and before anyone goes on at me, i also believe that women who covers they're faces and talk through a veil shouldnt teach in britain aswell. (so i am not just saying it about homosexuals)
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    Ermm ok.

    You claim to be bisexual. Do you consider yourself abnormal?

    Do you think children should be taught that homosexuality is abnormal, so they can then grow up to share Norse's attitudes? What of those children who are homosexual? Do you think they should grow up to believe they are abnormal, when they are not?

    There was a time when children were taught that black people were not normal and beneath contempt, simply because they are black.
     
  9. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    yes i abnormal, homosexuality is not the norm, i just dont think that homoseuals belong in the class room, they should not be taught the homosexualtiy is a normal lifestyle while it is not!
     
  10. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    Dear All,

    i thinke have 2 issues here (apologies if this has been touched upon)

    1) is it ok to be Gay - As in is it worng to be gay - the answer to nthat is no it is not worng as you are not doign anythign to harm anyone else or youare not breakign the law etc..

    2) is it normal to be Gay - it could be for some people maybe and not so normal for other people - but to answer this has their been any proof as to what causes people to be gay


    thast about it

    ~~~~~~~
    zak
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    As a bisexual, you consider yourself to be abnormal?:bugeye:

    The "norm"? No. But it is normal for homosexuals, just as being bisexual is normal for you and being heterosexual is normal for me.

    Are you saying homosexual children do not deserve to get an education?

    Do you think a homosexual teacher is unable to teach as well as a heterosexual teacher?

    A homosexual lifestyle is normal for a homosexual, just as a heterosexual lifestyle is normal for a heterosexual and a bisexual lifestyle is normal for a bisexual. Do you think children should be taught that homosexuality is not normal and taught to shun and abuse homosexuals because you deem it to be abnormal? Do you think a child who is homosexual should be made to feel abnormal and abused because of his/her sexuality?
     
  12. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    6,045
    My Dear Amazing Bells,

    sorry to interrupt - happy New Year by the way

    eerrrr when do you think children actually discover they are gay

    what exactly should they teach at school about homosexuality - i dotn udnertsand surely its up to that individual to work out whether they are gay or not??

    Obviously they shoudl nto say that Gays are not normal though.

    ~~~~
    cheers
    zak
     
  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    I have nothing against homosexual or bisexual people, but what you say is akin to saying rape is normal for a rapist, or murder is normal for a murderer :shrug:

    If something is not considered the norm, it is not considered normal.. :shrug:
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    24,132
    ZaK!!

    Happy New Year to you too.

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    I was not saying schools should teach children to be homosexuals, as something like that cannot be taught. I do not think children should be taught that homosexuality is wrong. Imagine how damaging it would be for a child who is homosexual and beginning to realise they were in fact attracted to the same sex?

    We need to break the cycle of abuse of homosexuals and the way to do that is by not teaching children that homosexuality is abnormal, or is something to be feared. After all, look at the reactions of someone like Norse as one example. Do you think his hatred of gays stems from the environment he was brought up in? Was he taught by those around him (be it his society, religion, family, etc) that homosexuality is abnormal? I would imagine the answer to that is yes. And he was probably taught this from a very young age. Personally, with two son's, I would hope like hell if one or both of them are homosexual, and they come out to someone other than their father or myself, that the individual who first finds out does not tell them they are abnormal. Because they are normal human beings.

    Fair point. But are people born to be rapists and murderers? Rape is not normal behaviour, nor is murder. One's sexuality, however, is normal for each individual. I'll put it this way.. Do you think you are normal in regards to your sexuality?

    I find it amazing that in this day and age, with our supposed enlightenment and level of education, that there are still some in society who think homosexuals should be shunned and told they are not normal. They are normal, just as I, as a heterosexual, am normal.
     
  15. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    Fair enough.. but do we know for certain that rapists were not born that way ?
    Do I think I am normal in regards to my sexuality ? I don't understand the question... :shrug: However, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

    I don't know whether you misunderstood or not, but I was only 'criticizing' your wording, not your point.. I don't believe homosexuals should be shunned or told they are not normal.
    As homosexual animals are found throughout nature, I'd say homosexuality is natural. But I wouldn't say it's normal, it is not the norm..
    The composition of any population, including homosexual individuals, constitutes the norm.
     
  16. Zakariya04 and it was Valued Senior Member

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    Dear bells
    thank you for your response

    yes absolutely it should not be taught in schools that people who are gay are abnormal as this could lead to hate - there is enough hate in thsi world as it is.

    My dad is very homophobic and this did effect me up until the age of 21/22 were i too was homophobic, then i made friends witha couple of lads and lasses at different times thorugh my uni times and after i developed friendship with them i found out they were gay.

    obviously at the time this caused me a lot of internal grief - but then i realsied fuckit they are still my mates and nice people - blah blah blah

    This is good cos now i am open minded about whether people are gay or not- it is there lives not mine after all.

    i'm not exactly sure what should be taught at schools though - but one things for sure they should not teach children that gay people are weird or anythign bad liek that

    ~~~~~~~
    cheers
    zak
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,132
    I would say homosexuality is natural and normal (for a homosexual), just as being a heterosexual is natural and normal for me. That is what I meant.

    Can it (defining homosexuality, etc) be taught in schools at all? I would say yes, when kids are taught about sexuality in general (usually in sex education classes).
     
  18. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    I disagree and I want apologize before hand for the comparison I'm going to make.
    Would you say that having a rare genetic disease is normal ?
    Progeria for instance. I'd say it is natural, but not normal.. see definitions below.

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    nat·u·ral
    –adjective
    1. existing in or formed by nature

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural

    nor·mal
    –adjective
    1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normal

    Edit: Natural is in the definition of normal LOL, just saw that. I think the interpretation of natural in that sense must be that it is normal for the human population to contain homosexual individuals.
    As I said earlier, "The composition of any population, including homosexual individuals, constitutes the norm".

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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Bells,

    do you say homosexuality is genetic or not ?
    You said homosexual individuals are born that way, does that mean you think it is genetic ?
    Rape btw, is normal behavior for a rapist. And murder is normal behavior for a murder. I don't think you want to continue in this direction lol

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    And if it's not genetic, how can you say a homosexual being homosexual is not comparable with a murderer murdering ? (apologies again)


    You agree with me that it is not something that is chosen in later life, right ?
    If it's not genetic but also not something chosen later on in life, then what brought it on ?


    Just for the record, I think it is ok to be gay. And no, I'm not gay.
    Also, I'm not sure what the 'cause' for homosexuality is. Could be genetic, could be a mix of genetic and environmental causes. I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  20. mouse can't sing, can't dance Registered Senior Member

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    671
    I can only speak from my personal experience, I had several homosexual teachers. They didn't affect my sexuality, or my opinion on the matter, at all. They didn't teach me anything about their lifestyle. They just worked through the national curriculum, as you would expect from any other teacher.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure if there is something as a unified homosexual lifestyle. What does that exactly mean? Does it imply that there is an explicit heterosexual lifestyle too? Some cultural thing I share with all the heterosexuals on this planet? If so, what is that all about?

    Furthermore, in my perspective, the first requirement for a teacher is the ability to promote and transfer understanding and knowledge. Whether or not he or she fits nicely within the "norm" as you might define it, seems irrelevant to me.

    On top of that, I do not think that a homosexual teacher sends a signal to the students that homosexuality is normal. If he or she sends any signal of the sort, it could probably be the message that being homosexual is nothing to be ashamed for, that it doesn't exclude you from society a priori. Not a particularly harmful message, from my point of view.
     
  21. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    Well, my aunts claimed that they (and my late mother) knew when I was about seven years old. I knew that I was "different in ways that most people aren't different" about the same time they knew. My dad, being the usual "blue collar country boy" type, wouldn't even fathom such a thing, so they tell me that my mother kept her thoughts private until I was about 11 when she told me (and this is one of the last memories I have of my mother) that "not all boys grow up to like girls, and if you do, that's fine, but you'll have to be careful because many people, like your father, aren't okay with it." Then in order to keep me from playing with my sister's toys she brought me a He-Man action figure and said, "Wouldn't you rather play with a He-Man doll, with all those big muscles?"

    I began coming to terms with my proclivity at about age 15 when, for the first time, I admitted to myself that I was "also" turned on by guys. At age 16 I had my first experience with a guy. At age 17 I admitted to myself that I wasn't even attracted to girls, and came out to a few friends (three people in high school). I was lucky enough that I went to a relatively small and tight-knit school (82 people in my graduating class). We were all pretty close and I was generally athletic (which in the USA [for some hideous reason] is the golden key to acceptance if not popularity altogether). I went to Spain as a foreign exchange student that same year and was involved with a guy there (in Spain, being gay is shockingly a non-issue: they couldn't care less who's gay. No "gay groups" in high school, people just accept it as a part of life and move on and HEY NORSE: the gay population is the same there as anywhere else in the free world and Spain ain't falling apart). I came home and pretty much came out to the world at age 19 (somewhere in there was some drama with my family and some personal issues I had at the time, but it ain't worth talking about).

    That's a good question and I refuse to allow myself to believe that my personal values should be foisted off on other students. What should be taught is the basics during whatever sex-ed program they have (mine lasted a week): "This is the nature of sex and sexual development, this is how safe sex works, these are the repercussions for unsafe sex, abstinence is still the safest bet, not all people grow up to be straight & these are the known facts on that issue, here is some literature + contacts if you have any questions and/or issues." Given a standard one-week program, I think you can cover the basics without politicizing the issues. One can teach about sex, sexuality, safe sex, abstinence and provide a solid foundation without advocating one issue over the other.

    No, they should teach that gays are evil, EEEEEVIL people and make those who are quietly gay (like myself) even MORE suicidal and maybe even KILL themselves. Then we'd have a perfect, peaceful world!

    For a safe and secure society!

    ~String
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  22. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    i do, because we have had teachers saying that homosexual is totally ok, and that it is an accepted form of living in society, but has the main post will state to some people it isnt.
     
  23. mouse can't sing, can't dance Registered Senior Member

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    But, it is OK; they are not hurting anyone else, they don't pose a threat and whatever they do between the sheets is their business.

    That's something else than normal, though. Something can be both OK and normal, OK and not normal, not OK and normal or not OK and not normal.

    OK implies that it is not wrong. Normal implies... er... well, considering the history of this thread, we can't seem to agree what normal actually implies. It may or may not be normal. In any event, the verdict on that I find to be irrelevant to the discussion.

    Point is that it is wrong to deny an otherwise perfectly capable teacher a job, solely because some parents can not accept that the sexual preference of a teacher is a personal issue and, frankly, should be none of their concern.
     

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