Israeli right winger endorses one state solution!

Discussion in 'World Events' started by S.A.M., Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,938
    you are contradicting yourself.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Not at all. In my country, there are still places where untouchables sit outside the school or drink water from wells where animals have died. Once upon a time, this was true for all Indian society. Now we elect untouchables as our representatives, but we are still not perfect. Once conditions were worse for Indians than they are for Palestinians. There is always hope for a better society.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    Having a place to defend your people after suffering from a genocidal event isn't just a passing desire, it's a matter of life and death.

    You seem to admit that there is no humanitarian justification for the elimination of Israel as a political entity. I don't think the enemies of Israel have really thought about it, they just want to win a political game.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Who is "your" people? And if you believe so strongly in such tribalism, why do you not live there? Why enjoy benefits you are unwilling to extend? Do you believe in the US constitution?
     
  8. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,440
    So because you think you needed a place just your own you have a right to steal land?

    No I see no reason to try and articulate a humanitarian reason when their is already a solid legal one. but their is the humanitarian justifcation of finally after 6 decades having the palestinians have their right secured to them.
    I find that hard to believe. that you thought past their arab and muslim therefore deserve to die seems rather far fetched.
     
  9. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    I don't necessarily feel this connection, but I know other people do. I do accept the US constitution as a valiant attempt to create a fair government.
     
  10. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,938
    Yes you are. If Israelis are so bad (because they are rude and nobody likes them) why would you want the Palestinians to live with them in one state?
     
  11. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    I never said that.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    And yet, if Americans thought like you do, in terms of tribalism, your society would become insupportable for you.

    Maybe they could learn from Palestinian graciousness. After all, all good things in Israeli society have come to them from the Palestinians.
     
  13. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,440
    never said you did. I said you thought it. and as your own of the people most vocal and anti muslim its based on a decent deduction. I mean hell its propably the real reason you think the palestinians deserve to die.
     
  14. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,938
    Like suicide bombers and terrorists. Dont forget the old custom of killing your own daughter if she is raped. Family honor is very important in the 21st century.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Is that what Israelis have adopted? I hadn't heard. I was referring to the Jewish religion, Hebrew and hummus.

    I'm curious, do you know any Israeli Arabs well? Do you feel more "at home" with them than with European Jews?
     
  16. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,938
    Still with your nonsense are you.
     
  17. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,938
    I always feel at home. Arabs, Jews, Muslims in India. Especially in Jerusalem

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Do Jews in Israel speak Arabic, listen to Umm Kulthum, watch Arabic movies? Do they feel part of the Pan-Arab culture? Or do they feel they are more like westerners?

    Have you ever visited Lebanon or Syria or Egypt? How do you feel there? How do people treat you?
     
  19. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,383
    Israel has legitimate humanitarian justifications for existing but it had no justification for costing the Palestinians anything. Anything that the Palestinians tried to do to avoid being victimized by the birth and continuation of Israel does not create a justification to victimize the Palestinians. Fear of how the victimized Palestinians would victimize Jews if given the opportunity to do so can not absolve Israel of responsibility for what it has done to Palestinians.

    If Israel wishes to not be to the Palestinians the unjust plague that may ancestors were to the native Americans then Israelis will have to risk suffering and the possible loss of Israel. If they choose to disregard the issue of justice for Palestinians or worse lie about the issue of justice for Palestinians then they should be filed with the Nazis and the colonial Americans as being a people who choose to be evil.

    But why should I be so attached to truth and justice when we are really just animals that lie to ourselves? Israel can do what It wants if it either does not mind being evil or can fool itself into not seeing it's own evil.


    I think the Palestinians would accept either of my post 7 scenarios. You would have to make them vote for it and make each person pledge to defend the agreement against any Palestinian who wants to be at war with Jews. How often do the Arab Israeli citizens attack Jews? They have the opportunity now to attack Jews that you fear to give to the West Bank and Gaza Jews.

    If you prefer two state solution two one state solution either because you think a Jewish state has value beyond being a safe haven or because you think Palestinians could never be trusted to live next door to Jews then my two state solution from post 7 seems like relative justice to me. Israel would keep the Nukes and the mighty army. They would be safe but poorer and smaller and not what Zionists feel entitled to.

    I consider Israel a liability rather than an ally to the USA. While America oil companies and neocon would be global kingmakers may still have dreams of somehow using the US versus Islamic extremist tensions to gain control of valuable assets, I see the tensions between the USA and the Islamic world as needlessly putting the USA in an antagonistic relationship with a large portion of the world. The USA's relationship with Israel has played a role in creating and maintaining the USA's antagonistic relationship with the Islamic world. I also don't like religious fundamentalism and this bad relationship between the USA and the Islamic world strengthens the religious fundamentalism of both peoples.

    What use am I supposed to have for fortress Israel? The US gets blamed for whatever Israel does so having Israel do the USA's dirty deeds does not accomplish anything. Iran would not be seeking nukes if the USA did not scare them. My defense objective would be to be stronger than China and to have a network of allies that could counter China if China and it's allies misbehaved. I don't need Israel and American kleptocrats creating enemies for the USA. If the USA wants to blow up the oil field to deprive China of fuel it can do it itself and does not need Israel.
     
  20. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,383
    The Palestinians are not going to win on their own. If the Palestinians are not willing to share Israel they become a lot less compelling as victims.

    What was unfair to the Palestinians in terms of borders in 1948 seems resonable now because so many more Jews arrived.

    Somebody still needs to pay the Palestinians for the land they lose. Asking Palestinians to be a minority in a state defined as a Jewish state for Jews does not seem fair.
     
  21. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,383
    I said "all land is stolen property" and you said "false".

    You think law matters. I only care about what is right and wrong. Laws are made by those in power. Presumably it was "legal" for the great powers and their international institutions to create Israel as the did but was it ethical?

    I like to look beyond law to find right and wrong because laws can be wrong.

    Looking at the institution of land ownership I see that whoever first claimed a piece of land as theirs was stealing from everybody else.

    Since then all good land has been taken repeatedly by force from earlier claimants.

    When this land is sold it is a sale of stolen property.

    You said theft used to be legal so ancient thefts are not equal to Israeli theft. I say theft is theft and always was theft regardless what the laws were. Israel makes legalistic claims but I say theft is theft and the laws are irrelevant.

    Land ownership is fiction but this fiction serves two good purposes. 1 it stops people from fighting over land if they can agree who it belongs to. 2 it enables people like farmers who improve the land to keep the benefit of their labor thereby incentivizing increased productive capacity.

    Land ownership as an institution has a negative. It steals land from poor babies to give it to rich babies. The poor baby had as much right to the land as the rich baby but the poor baby must suffer for the bad decisions and bad luck of his ancestors.

    All land is stolen.
     
  22. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,440
    and probably in house where your government evicted the real true owners because they weren't jewish
     
  23. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,440
    they refuse to share Israel but they are willing to share palestine so long as their rights are recognized.

    I'm sorry but the argument your making of well they got away with so they should continue to get away with is morally and legally repugnent

    true
    which is why you transfer that land to a palestinian state. where all people have equal rights
     

Share This Page