Israel & Palestine (v2)

No actually far from it.

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Shlomo Sand (Hebrew: שלמה זנד‎) is professor of history at Tel Aviv University.

The smilies are inappropriate, the analogies are not. I suggest reading Sand`s book, before commenting on "The Jewish People".

 

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Can you see the problem here?

 

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Since when are you anti-Zionist? Why? I consider myself Zionist, they're not cruel - sadistic - evil etc etc. Have you ever considered all of that "Free Mossad Intelligence" which costs Israel billions of dollars is paid through "Donations" to keep it off of government records? Are you also sure that their desire is to destroy the Palestinian state - or is it to eliminate terrorist cells which plagued them for 45 years until they became more proactive?

48% of Arabs vote Zionist
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3184534,00.html

The following are popular Zionist parties in Israel;
Labor, Kadima, Likud, Meretz, Shinui, National Union, Yisrael Peiteynu, NR. They hold combined in the 18th kenesset, 13,28,27,3,15,0,0 and 3 seats each. That's 89 of 120 seats - roughly 3/4ths.
Today...
Kadima, Likud, Yisrael Beteinu, Labor, Shas , National Union, Jewish home, and New Meretz hold combined 94 seats. Only 3 other parties hold more than one seat, none of which are Zionist.

The majority of Israel IS and votes Zionist.

 

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I was misquoted. I did not use that terminology.

I said:

Someone is trying to reverse the terms and point out the oh-so-ironic nature of my statement.

 

So you do see the problem here?

 

Oh, that explains why I couldn't find the actual quote - I assumed it was deleted in a MOD sweep.

 

they're out to destroy the palestinian people which you approve of.

 

But there was no Palestinian state beforehand, so why should one be artificially enforced upon the people through an outside force..?

 

so artificially enforcing a jewish state for jews not even residing there on an arab majority is ok but creating a palestinian state for the people there is wrong? The reason a palestinian state should be in palestine is because a they have a right to it. and b the law supports it. but I guess like most pro Israel people the wants of invaders matter more than the rights of their victims.



did you think that comment through? The reason a palestinian state should be in your words "artificially" enforced is because its their fucking land.

 

Even if destroying the USA weren't a stupid and counterproductive idea, it would never work - they have nuclear weapons.

 

??? are you like john or geoff and just try and be a fucking weird as possible while being as irrelevant as possible?

first off the US creation wasn't criminal plus the native tribes signed treaties giving away the land. if your going to change something that some said(which by the way I hate. Its childish in my opinion. doublely so when the analogy your trying to make doesn't work) at least check the facts so it works. I get you like Israel and don't care that its founding was nothing less than naked aggression on the resident majority but I kind like the rule of law and fairness

 

But Israel isn't artificially or externally enforced. It is simply externally supported. The government is voluntarily enforced and maintained by people living there.

Now, what law states "arab malcontents who previously did not want nor were capable of forming their own state are now entitled to dissolve an already existing state in order to establish newly existing dusty arab state #22?"

 

Um really so no outside enforcement created it? So the british offing the arab leaders and not jewish played no part? the british attacking the arab forces that enterned into the arab part of the illegal partiatian of palestine but not the jewish played no part?

only because they didn't let the resident population that fled the jewish death squads to come back.

Since when did bigotry become fact? they are both capable and wanted a country from the begining.

 

What or who is an "Arab malcontent"?

Justice does not necessarily require the dissolution of Israel. All that would be required would be to give back the land stolen since 1947, and earnestly and honestly, negotiate the formation of an independent and sovereign Palestine.

 

I agree but most of the people over the age of 18 who owned land in 1947 are dead now, so most modern day Palestinians have no claim to it. They were born after. So it seems like Palestinians today aren't fighting for property, but for a national identity. No one else is obligated to recognize or respect that identity, though.

 

Jewish death squads. Can we stop being hyperbolic?

Israel was not externally enforced anymore than Palestine would have been had they not blew their chance way back in 1947. Six arab states deciding to invade Israel and continually failing and failing and failing is the fault of those arab states, not Israel. And guess what, that is attempted external enforcement on the part of arabs. What a bunch of sorry losers.

 

Its not quite that simple. If one honestly pursues justice it can be achieved. In South Africa, land stolen from colored folk around the same era - 1947, was returned to their descendants, around 2006. That is secondary to this discussion however. The land, which in 1947 was outlined as the Palestinian State, should be returned to and re incorporated into the Palestinian State.

Of course they are. Unless no one is obligated to respect or recognize "Jewish" identity, which gives any Jew on the planet the right of return to Israel.

 

Colonization isn't criminal? Genocide and slavery aren't criminal? Ethnic cleansing and land theft aren't criminal?

Personally I don't blame European Americans for living on land dripping with the blood of the natives they stole it from, because that's all in the past now and the same happened in Canada, Australia, Brazil, South Africa - most of the world really. It's just the hypocrisy of pointing fingers at others while pretending it never happened at home that looks silly.

Nonsense, you know nothing about the rule of law. You have never once quoted a law to back up your assertions of legality or illegality.

And you obviously know nothing about fairness. You ignore the fact that the Arab states stole land 4 times the size of Israel from the Jews they ethnically cleansed after World War II. Most of whom escaped to Israel, where they now have to deal with the idiots who want to destroy their adopted country.

You don't care that the Muslims of Pakistan kicked out millions of Hindus to found their country after World War II. And you're certainly very careful to avoid the fact that Poland stole land 5 times the size of Israel from eastern Germany after World War II. All of those countries (and more) deserve to be destroyed at least as much as Israel, if you're being fair.

 

I can't help but agree. The people living in North America were invaded and oppressed in ways many times worse than Palestinians were ever oppressed. We're talking about bringing people to the utter brink of annihilation here.

Yet, pjdude lives in the USA. He doesn't support its dissolution and its territory's transferrance to the few American Indians living in our reservations.

That is because what is done is done, and nothing can go back to the way it was. I just take heart in the fact that the longer Israel remains a solid state, the more legitimacy it gains simply by existing throughout time. Two hundred years from now, it will be rather impossible to make the argumentthat Israel needs to be destroyed so that its lands can be returned to Palestinian descendants. That argument will be invalid the same way that argument is invalid in the USA concerning American Indians. So in many ways, the Jews have already won.

Buh bye Palestine. You were never to be.

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It wasn't the Israeli government who acquired these lands. It was the Jewish national fund, it was deemed fully legal by the United Nations. The Jewish National fund has purchased billions of dollars in (maybe 100's of billions) of Israeli land from Egyptian / Jordanian / Iranian etc. landowners by offering them insanely high returns. They purchased them, then they evicted the citizens and then sold them to private hands which they could do selectively.

Fully 100% legal world wide, UN approved.

You see...said Palestinians never really owned their land. Most of their property was leased or 'squatted upon' by Palestinians. Its actual owners were absentee Arabs who held the land assuming it to be a valuable commodity. They were proven right, had no interest in anything by the profits, it's THEM who sold the land that was as you call it "Palestinian Land". So...if I live in my apartment long enough I can attack my landlord if they don't allow me to renew my lease?