Israel, Palestine and the Arab/Israel Conflict

Discussion in 'World Events' started by goofyfish, Jul 25, 2001.

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  1. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Norman Finkelstein? :roflmao:
     
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  3. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Ad hominem. He did cite the meticulous British records of the time.
     
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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Quid pro quo, Clarisse. Will the rest of the Middle East compensate Jewish refugees from their countries for their confiscated land and possessions?

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    Well, will they?
     
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  7. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    I believe they would be willing to discharge their responsibilities the moment Israel does.
     
  8. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Then the tally is already balanced.

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  9. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    meticulous British records of the time​


    Now you really have me :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

    Yes, the records for legal residents was meticolus, but the records for illegals was far from complete or accurate.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Don't be silly, die gedanken sind frie. Complaining about the way others do things is natural and proper.

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    What do you think of Binyamin Netanyahu's most recent decision? I think from now on, since everyone knows where the lines are drawn, the Israel Palestine process will become a spectator sport with everyone discussing what the Israelis will do next. It really is all up to them now, isn't it? Even Abbas ha given up and KHamaaaas is no longer resisting recognition at '67 borders.

    WWID?

    Just for kicks, how internet killed the hasbara star or the hasbarapocalypse

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME_NpnH7jDc&feature=player_embedded
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  11. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Just read this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial

    It's the most famous book which endorses your thesis. I'm reading it now, but it appears to be full of error.
     
  12. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    yeah when you have an Israeli history professor who has every incentive for the thesis of the book to be true call it and I quote "a shear forgery" perhaps someone might want to use a different thesis.
     
  13. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    And the citation you forwarded has less errors?

    Again for legal individuals, those who paid their taxes, on the lands that were Deeded and Titled to them the records are meticulous, and for the Jews that the British arrested for illegal immigration the records are meticulous, for the Arabs that the British arrested and deported the records are meticulous..3/1, but for illegal immigrants the Arabs from across the middle east, who the British didn't make the effort to find, round, up, and deport, the squatters who disappeared when the tax man showed up, the record are spotty to say the least.

    http://www.meforum.org/522/the-smoking-gun-arab-immigration-into-palestine

    The 1935 British report to the League of Nations noted that:

    One thousand five hundred and fifty-seven persons (including 565 Jews) who, having made their way into the country surreptitiously, were later detected, were sentenced to imprisonment for their offence and recommended for deportation.[26]

    (From the British own numbers, it could be deduced that there was a 3/1 Arab to Jew illegal immigration ratio, and that would be easily explained by the fact that the Arab illegal had less of a problem infiltrating into the Palestine.)

    Each piece of the demographic puzzle by itself may reveal no identifiable picture. But given a multiplicity of such pieces, an image does begin to appear. The Royal Institute for International Affairs adds another piece. Commenting on the growth of the Palestinian population during the decades of the 1920s and 1930s it reports: "The number of Arabs who have entered Palestine illegally from Syria and Transjordan is unknown. But probably considerable."[28] And C.S. Jarvis, governor of the Sinai from 1923-36, adds yet another:

    This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Trans-Jordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.[29]
    [28] Great Britain and Palestine, 1915-1945, Information Paper no. 20, 3d ed. (London: Royal Institute for International Affairs, 1946), p. 64.
    [29] C.S. Jarvis, "Palestine," United Empire (London), 28 (1937): 633.


    That over 10 percent of the 1931 Arab Palestinian population in those sub-districts that eventually became Israel had immigrated to those sub-districts within the 1922-31 years is a datum of considerable significance. It is consistent with the fragmentary evidence of illegal migration to and within Palestine; it supports the idea of linkage between economic disparities and migratory impulses—a linkage universally accepted; it undercuts the thesis of "spatial stickiness" attributed by some scholars to the Arab Palestinian population of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; and it provides strong circumstantial evidence that the illegal Arab immigration into Palestine, like that within Palestine, was of consequence as well.


    Consider first McCarthy's analysis of Arab immigration during the Ottoman period. That he finds no illegal immigration of consequence is not surprising because McCarthy uses official Ottoman registration lists that, by the nature of its classifications, take no account of the unreported, illegal immigration. That is to say, if you look in a haystack for a needle that wasn't put there, the probability is high you won't find it. It is strange that that idea had not occurred to McCarthy

    Every Reason to Believe
    Therein lies the ideological warfare concerning claims to territorial inheritance and national sovereignty. Contrary to McCarthy's findings or wishes, there is every reason to believe that consequential immigration of Arabs into and within Palestine occurred during the Ottoman and British mandatory periods. Among the most compelling arguments in support of such immigration is the universally acknowledged and practiced linkage between regional economic disparities and migratory impulses.

    The precise magnitude of Arab immigration into and within Palestine is, as Bachi noted, unknown. Lack of completeness in Ottoman registration lists and British Mandatory censuses, and the immeasurable illegal, unreported, and undetected immigration during both periods make any estimate a bold venture into creative analysis. In most cases, those venturing into the realm of Palestinian demography—or other demographic analyses based on very crude data—acknowledge its limitations and the tentativeness of the conclusions that may be drawn.

    Fred M. Gottheil is a professor in the department of economics, University of Illinois.
     
  14. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    Wow you got an econ professor how does that trump an Israel history professor(Yehoshua Porath) of middle eastern history who specialized in the history of palestinain nationalism? the thesis your promoting is rubbish and has been largely ignored since its refuting.
     
  15. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Factual data.
     
  16. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    By your own admission, there is no supporting evidence for massive illegal immigration to Palestine on the part of Arabs. Their demographic increase can be explained by administrative improvements in disease control, and the well known proclivity of peasant people to have large families. I also have every interest in proving this wrong, but at this point, it looks like the notion is the invention of one author based on questionable scholarship, who has been debunked repeatedly. But the talking point continues regardless of facts. I'm still reading "From Time Immemorial", as well as "Blaming the victims: spurious scholarship and the Palestinian question", which refutes it.
     
  17. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    so your essentially claiming one of the top experts of palestinian history in Israel is a fraud?

    you don't have factual data. you have hacks you who misrepresented information and your own biases.
     
  18. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, a politically correct fraud.

    According to whom? You? :roflmao:
     
  19. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Really, so you didn't read the citation, as usual, and the citation is not from "From Time Immemorial",

    Now for "Blaming the victims: spurious scholarship and the Palestinian question" yes, it would seem that the author would want to claim such as the Author;

    Edward Wadie Saïd [wædiːʕ sæʕiːd] Arabic: إدوارد وديع سعيد‎, Idwārd Wadīʿ Saʿīd; is a Palestinian, born in Jerusalem, His father, a US citizen with Protestant Palestinian origins, His mother, born in Nazareth and was half-Lebanese, of Protestant background, they left for Egypt, when the Arabs lost the War of Extermination of the State of Israel.

    His own description of Himself;


    Yes, much politically correct, spurious scholarship, now refute the points of Fred M. Gottheil, also a Professor of the Center for Global Studies, University of Illinois, besides being a professor in the department of economics, seem He used both disciplines to research his finding, and has no ax to grind.
     
  20. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Stop blaming israel.

    The world needs a scaegoat. The other side of this coin is that each time this option is used, the user inherits a loss factor and diminishes itself - because when the scapegoat factor wears thin, they will have nothing to stand upon.

    Tsunamies and AIDS were not caused by the Zionists - but cell phones and your PC's instant messaging was. Israel is grasping with the future the world still has to catch up with - in record time and while facing an existential threat every day - mostly because most of the world is too busy inventing fairy tales about Israel. This is a rare, bold opinion which will never make the main media news:


     
  21. hypewaders Save Changes Moderator

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    Mod Note: Merging threads, I've combined some posts here so that the discussion remains in sequence.

     
  22. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    cell phones were created by an american not an Israel and argublely instant messaging was created and existed in a form before what Israel claims created it. Israel is a lot better at stealing credit for things than they are at actually making things
     
  23. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    typical you and an expert disagree and naturally it must be the expert that wrong and a fraud. I mean its not like he has has accusatiion of academic wrongdoing and we all know you have a clean slate when it comes to academic honesty.



    common sense. when you repeat things that have long since been debunked you don't have facts.
     
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