# Israel invades Plaestine, again under high-kill ratio policy

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Billy T, Nov 17, 2012.

1. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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right they give such lip service to it the keys to the homes they were forced from are treasured family heirlooms passed down in hopes of one day being allowed their legal right to return.

3. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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wouldn't work. their just isn't enough time to get a proper bead on such targets.

5. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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:facepalm:: that is a gross mischarcterization of power levels but surprisingly very common among people who support Israel and it crimes. oh poor Israel with its super modern military going up against anitquated soviet tech. Israel is the big dog surrounded by a bunch of small dogs not the other way around.

7. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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Are you sure?

There are least 4 companies that have been producing naval based models since the 1970's and 2 companies producing land based models, one of which has been producing since 2007 and has been well tested defending US bases in Iraq against mortars. The Israeli towns within mortar/artillery range of gaza (under 10 km) could stand to benefit from C-RAM defense system.

8. ### The MarquisOnly want the best for NigelValued Senior Member

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A gross misrepresentation of power levels in what way?
I said Israel was a little guy surrounded buy big guys, but had the one advantage of carrying a bigger gun.
Now go ahead and explain how that is incorrect.

I always think of Alien (the original movie) when someone does the facepalm thing.
...Nevermind.

Explain it. Just for me. Watch that knee jerk reaction, though.

9. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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its exactly as I said

10. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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You obviously don´t understand how CIWS works. It does not "draw a bead on the target." It very rapidly shoots a stream of many bullets intitally aimed approximately at the target and its radar tracks them going out as well a the target and the aimming control system converges the two. It is a "fire until target kill" system* with better than than 90% success rate as I recall.

BTW a few have been mounted on flat bed trucks and used in Iraq to explode even incoming mortar shells which have less time of flight than the Gaza rockets. - One of my old posts has the link.

* hit target is "instantly" known by its abrupt doppler shift to the radar.

Later by edit: I see Electric Fetus in post 24 has one of my old links. (I was working forward from my last post and replied to you before reading post 24.)

11. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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But it should be noted that it can't knock out things that are beyond its maximum altitude or beyond a unspecific supersonic speed, Hence why "Iron dome" is needed, "Davids sling" and "Arrow", its just below Iron dome C-RAM systems could be used for very short range defense.

12. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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you still got to know where it is. against a rocket or an artillery shell that has a decent flight time yes but against a mortar operated by infentry its going to be hard pressed to kill it because the time to recognize the launch localize the launch site and figure out where the projectile is roughly and than keep firing into the space it is so short. at such short ranges time is the critical factor in kills.

13. ### ElectricFetusSanity going, going, goneValued Senior Member

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Again we now have years of operational data the shows that C-RAM systems can and do knock down mortars rounds.
http://defense-update.com/newscast/0508/news/news2105_c_ram.htm

http://defensetech.org/2007/12/21/could-israel-deploy-c-ram-for-border/
“The C-RAM is deployed at US FOBs (Forward Operating Bases) all over Iraq — not just in the so-called Green Zone. C-RAMs success rate in shooting mortar rounds and other incoming indirect ordnance out of the sky is better than 85% according to data I’ve received from those who’ve installed these systems in Iraq. C-RAM counter-fires which miss the incoming target do not simply fall to ground — each 20mm round is fused to self-destruct if contact is not made with the target.

The IDF Research & Development Directorate’s (MAFAT) refusal to acquire and deploy the C-RAM system in defense of Sderot or other Israeli towns is several echelons below unfortunate, and appears to be couched in political considerations which have nothing to do with the suffering of the citizens of Sderot. The non-acquisition is sending a message of abandonment to the women and children of Sderot who are under severe traumatic stress and psychological pressures not unlike that of soldiers in combat.“

14. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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Don´t blame MAFAT. They serve as told.

I have noted long ago the real reason why Israel lets the Gaza rockets do damage and kill an Israeli or two every few years. A few Israeli deaths are needed to justify Israel following a high kill ratio policy (at least 25 to 1) with the false belief that will keep them secure,* instead of a multi-layer defense (including land mines and killer dog zone , etc. as I have described in detail in many posts more than 6 years ago) as well as rocket (and ICBM) interceptors.

*It will, until in a decade or so the infiltrators and rockets to use much more lethal biological weapons (air born infection fatal agents like ebola, etc.) than HE. There will be many marters hoping for the chance to die when disperinging them from high buildings in Tela Vive or loading them instead of HE in the then longer range rockets.

16. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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Very interesting and chemical lasers as killers of satelites been tested - I was slightly connected to those tests 30+ years ago. They must be fire from a high altitude plane because of "blooming" and I suspect this will limit Skyguard´s range if system is ground based. Also the chemicals used 30 years ago are (or the products) quite toxic.

The air is not 100% transparent. When you put a lot of radiation energy thru it for farther than CIWS can shoot the air in the beam path warmes and expands - this reduces the refracitive index so you are shooting thru a negative lense which spreads the beam lowering the intensity on target. You will note the laser beam of skyguard comes out of a large circular window. It is going backwards thru optics much like a telescope to lower the intensity /cm^2 (by more than a factor of 100 I would guess). This decreases the Blooming and actually results in higher intensity on target than just shooting at target without sending beam backwards thru a telescope.

I know some of the physics, but nothing specific about skyguard. - They may have designed it for a ground based range not much greater than CIWS, which is much cheaper per kill - But here may be why it has not been placed into service:

Quite probably, it was designd for instalation in high altitude plane where blooming problem is greatly reduced and just shot down a few short range ground threats, as a PR demonstration, instead of killing long range threats from even higher altitude than the threat which are many Km away from the laser unit. - that would be my guess as to why it was built.

17. ### Mr.SpockBack from the deadValued Senior Member

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FUCK YOU. Go piss on someone else