Isn't time that Humanity was more important than any religion

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by river, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. river

    Romantic , I see

    See the thing is , is that , if all you can do is attack me , rather than the philosophy I put forth , then there is nothing to discuss


    And by observation

    And so what really

    Like I said before , every religion , is about another outside entity and therefore not about us , Humanity

    I hope to change that mindset
    Sure they do , I'm well aware of this

    Some people are consumed with power , revenge , domination , control , manipulation , ego , fear , religion and politics etc.

    And that is the cancer which grips us now

    It will take time to change this mindset , no doubt

    By the realization that we are All part of Humanity , hence then our survival depends on us seeing the big picture , as in the Universe in which we must learn to survive

    And we can only achieve if we see the value in our existence as a whole

    By the understanding , by all of Humanity , that we need to believe in ourselves first and foremost
    I embrace the differences , all I'm trying to get across is make Humanity first

    I will neither imprison or kill anybody

    They will either understand the reasoning or they won't

    Up to them
    We lost our Humanity when religion came into our thoughts ,behavior and attitudes towards other Humans
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  3. Balerion Banned Banned

    Not if you make value judgments on your own. You can even take your cues from other sources, so long as you agree with the reasoning behind those valuations, without making any appeal to authority. For example, I happen to agree with Christopher Hitchens on many aspects of morality and reason, but I don't agree with him because he's Christopher Hitchens, I agree because I agree with his logic.

    That makes no sense whatsoever. Saying that there is no objective quality such as good or evil is not to say that thing doesn't exist as a subjective quality. If I drew a bath, I might say it is just right, but you might say it is too hot. Even though there is no objective "too hot" or "just right" in this situation, both qualities exist subjectively. It is true for you that the bath is too hot, even though it is not true for me. Hence, subjective values.

    It does neither of those things. You and I can judge something on its merits and come to two totally different conclusions--see the bathwater example above--and both be correct, because valuation is a subjective process. Judging something for oneself doesn't mean that judgment is therefore objective; it means the opposite of that. Appealing to some authority would be the surrender to a perceived objectivity, because it would suggest that one doesn't believe themselves capable of making judgments, or perhaps they believe that the authority has some insight that they do not.

    I think he's saying that he's presenting God as an alternative to those values, but I could be wrong.
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  5. river


    Look at my last post statement ( #521 ) compared to your last statement

    Find the error ?
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  7. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    There are times when having some formal education makes the difference in understanding things.

    Some of your views are not unlike those of the romantics, and this is what I was referring to.

    It seems though that you are the one who sees God as something outside of humanity.

    What does that mean, "to believe in ourselves"?

    In that case, you are not actually advocating change. Even though you keep saying that people need to change and how you hope to change them.

    Where do you believe religion came from?
  8. river


    In the sense that god is not from Humanity or not Human in origin
  9. river

    It means that we can govern ourselves , in all aspects of Humanity by developing our own philosophy attitude towards ourselves

    Inotherwords become independent of any god philosophy
  10. river

    So are you saying that to invoke my kind of change that I would have to kill and / or jail them to do so ? Won't happen

    Look there will always be opponents to my philosophy , I have no problem with this

    What I'm hopping is that most people will see the benefits of what I'm trying to get across
  11. river

    Like I said from out there , beyond Earth
  12. river

    I see your point

    But I see that because I'm NOT informed of these philosophical teachings , I'm also not conditioned to think like them

    So that what I'm trying to get across is based on more free thinking upon the situation.
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Of course you have a problem with this; otherwise, you wouldn't be posting this thread.

    How else?

    If your stance would be the true one, the one that adequately represents how things really are, then people wouldn't have much difficulty to align themselves with it; it would come naturally to them.

    If humans really would be humane by nature (as you understand the term "humane"), then how can it be that a philosophy from beyond planet Earth could affect them so as to deteriorate them?

    I think you are simply operating out of an inferior hypothesis about God, hence your problems with religion.
  14. river


    You have a warped sense of freedom of thought

    Time will tell , my philosophy is very , very young

    Because this without philosophy has divided Humanity into this cult or that cult

    Which is because some cults think that they are closer to this or that god than any other

    Hence our situation presently in the world

    Explain this " inferior hypothesis " that you think I have

    Because basically you seem to have missed my point

    But explain this " inferior hypothesis " first
  15. Balerion Banned Banned

    Wynn flees from another discussion, I see.
  16. rodereve Registered Member

    I don't really see a conflict of interest, believing in Humanity and believing in religion aren't mutually exclusive.

    I might argue that some religions can be an expression of glorifying or celebrating humanity. They picture their Gods as human-like, that they can talk and hear, that they have arms or multiple arms and there's personifications of traits of God in many religious scriptures. The famous quote that "God created man in his own image" can be seen as "Man created God in his own image". The idea that millions of people can unite in a single belief and purpose, can share thoughts and bond by understanding what each other are going through. If religion is a way for humans to explain the world around them, its almost like a holy ritual observed by over 2000 years of humanity to pass on this concept from generation to generation and something millions and millions of people past have believed in and would die for.

    Well, that's one way to look at it

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  17. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    The prime definition of ''create'' is ''to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.''

    Before any lesser creation, that creation has to be first. It is therefore impossible for man to create God in their image unless you are are stating that God does not exist, period.

  18. rodereve Registered Member

    Well that's obvious, yes I'm stating that man imagined God, not the other way around. I'm trying to argue that Man projects his own qualities onto God and religion. It's like when you see aliens in sci-fi movies, they all look human-oid, because its our own conception of aliens, when in fact I'm sure if aliens existed they would look much different than us.

    For example, in the bible the Old Testament God gets jealous, and angry, and possessive of the israel tribe. That seems more like human qualities, than of an omnipotent being. God is very much personified in the bible, rather than some higher being in the universe.
  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    1. God imagines, which is why man imagines.

    2. Man projects his qualities onto everything, why single out God and religion?

    3. Because from our own experience humanoid creatures (humans in particular) rule (on any level), so if we are thinking of advance species it is little wonder we
    depict them as humanoids.

    4. Things aren't always how they seem.
    What do you think ''a higher being in the universe'' is or should be?

  20. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    You have the patience of a teenager.
  21. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    I think you have a warped sense of how social change can be brought about.

    In short, you do not maintain that God is the First Cause.

    So because there is competition between religious traditions, we should do away with religion altogether?
  22. arauca Banned Banned

    Religion is supposed to be humanity

    What does humanity offers that is not inscribed in religion ?

    If religion failed to produce humanity , Will humanity produce godliness ?
  23. river

    The problem though is that god governs our behavior because we have been conditioned for thousands of years that god is superior and that humanity is a lesser form of being

    We as Humanity have to break this psychology towards ourselves

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