Quetzalcoatl was a Teotihuacan god adopted by the Aztecs and Toltecs. Perhaps the Teotihuacanoes adopted it from elsewhere. But it was a war god or god of power and conquest and was depicted as a "feathered serpent," as visitors to the Teotihuacan Valley in Mexico can see on one of the most enigmatic pyramids in Mesoamerica. In this pyramid are the sacrifices of over 200 warriors, probably for the structure's dedication or re-dedication. Why is this bit of Mesoamerican history on-topic? Because we can see first-hand and with an objective eye the "stupidity" of religion. I use that term in quotes since I don't actually think religion is "stupid" in the literal sense, but it is an illogical system of beliefs that begin for logical reasons when you consider the earliest beliefs of a culture and trace their evolution as a religion. In Mesoamerican cultures, the god Quetzalcoatl was considered to be a christ-like figure. He was predicted to return; was the son of the primary deities; tempted by the evils of Tezcatlipoca; etc. Quetzalcoatl dominated Mesoamerican culture prior to the Spanish Conquest in the same way that Jesus and Mohammed dominate contemporary cultures. Rulers make attempts to identify with figures like this in order to motivate public opinion. If others of the thread are interested, we can look further at ancient religions to draw comparissons and contrasts to contemporary religions and further look for the "stupidity." But bear in mind that by "stupid," I'll only agree to the colloquial definition of "illogical."
Hi As an astronmy/mahts major, I have to say even more stupid than religion is cosmlology (astrophysical cosmology). In order to keep the theory of the Big bang true many exotic particles have been invented like dark matter, dark energy and even anti-gravity. Now all of these are used as proofs of the Big Bang theory, but here we run into a nice circular argument because the proof of all these particles is they need to be there because the Big Bang did happen. See also attached copy of www.cosmologystatement.org An Open Letter to the Scientific Community cosmologystatement.org (Published in New Scientist, May 22, 2004) The big bang today relies on a growing number of hypothetical entities, things that we have never observed-- inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory. In no other field of physics would this continual recourse to new hypothetical objects be accepted as a way of bridging the gap between theory and observation. It would, at the least, raise serious questions about the validity of the underlying theory. But the big bang theory can't survive without these fudge factors. Without the hypothetical inflation field, the big bang does not predict the smooth, isotropic cosmic background radiation that is observed, because there would be no way for parts of the universe that are now more than a few degrees away in the sky to come to the same temperature and thus emit the same amount of microwave radiation. Without some kind of dark matter, unlike any that we have observed on Earth despite 20 years of experiments, big-bang theory makes contradictory predictions for the density of matter in the universe. Inflation requires a density 20 times larger than that implied by big bang nucleosynthesis, the theory's explanation of the origin of the light elements. And without dark energy, the theory predicts that the universe is only about 8 billion years old, which is billions of years younger than the age of many stars in our galaxy. What is more, the big bang theory can boast of no quantitative predictions that have subsequently been validated by observation. The successes claimed by the theory's supporters consist of its ability to retrospectively fit observations with a steadily increasing array of adjustable parameters, just as the old Earth-centered cosmology of Ptolemy needed layer upon layer of epicycles. Yet the big bang is not the only framework available for understanding the history of the universe. Plasma cosmology and the steady-state model both hypothesize an evolving universe without beginning or end. These and other alternative approaches can also explain the basic phenomena of the cosmos, including the abundances of light elements, the generation of large-scale structure, the cosmic background radiation, and how the redshift of far-away galaxies increases with distance. They have even predicted new phenomena that were subsequently observed, something the big bang has failed to do. Supporters of the big bang theory may retort that these theories do not explain every cosmological observation. But that is scarcely surprising, as their development has been severely hampered by a complete lack of funding. Indeed, such questions and alternatives cannot even now be freely discussed and examined. An open exchange of ideas is lacking in most mainstream conferences. Whereas Richard Feynman could say that "science is the culture of doubt", in cosmology today doubt and dissent are not tolerated, and young scientists learn to remain silent if they have something negative to say about the standard big bang model. Those who doubt the big bang fear that saying so will cost them their funding. Even observations are now interpreted through this biased filter, judged right or wrong depending on whether or not they support the big bang. So discordant data on red shifts, lithium and helium abundances, and galaxy distribution, among other topics, are ignored or ridiculed. This reflects a growing dogmatic mindset that is alien to the spirit of free scientific inquiry. Today, virtually all financial and experimental resources in cosmology are devoted to big bang studies. Funding comes from only a few sources, and all the peer-review committees that control them are dominated by supporters of the big bang. As a result, the dominance of the big bang within the field has become self-sustaining, irrespective of the scientific validity of the theory. Giving support only to projects within the big bang framework undermines a fundamental element of the scientific method -- the constant testing of theory against observation. Such a restriction makes unbiased discussion and research impossible. To redress this, we urge those agencies that fund work in cosmology to set aside a significant fraction of their funding for investigations into alternative theories and observational contradictions of the big bang. To avoid bias, the peer review committee that allocates such funds could be composed of astronomers and physicists from outside the field of cosmology. Allocating funding to investigations into the big bang's validity, and its alternatives, would allow the scientific process to determine our most accurate model of the history of the universe. If you want to sign this statement , please click here Signed: (Institutions for identification only) Highlighted names are linked to related web pages Halton Arp, Max-Planck-Institute Fur Astrophysik (Germany) Andre Koch Torres Assis, State University of Campinas (Brazil) Yuri Baryshev, Astronomical Institute, St. Petersburg State University (Russia) Ari Brynjolfsson, Applied Radiation Industries (USA) Hermann Bondi, Churchill College, University of Cambridge (UK) Timothy Eastman, Plasmas International (USA) Chuck Gallo, Superconix, Inc.(USA) Thomas Gold, Cornell University (emeritus) (USA) Amitabha Ghosh, Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur (India) Walter J. Heikkila, University of Texas at Dallas (USA) ................................................. 10 Michael Ibison, Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin (USA) Thomas Jarboe, University of Washington (USA) Jerry W. Jensen, ATK Propulsion (USA) Menas Kafatos, George Mason University (USA) Eric J. Lerner, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics (USA) Paul Marmet, Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics (retired) (Canada) Paola Marziani, Istituto Nazionale di Astrofisica, Osservatorio Astronomico di Padova (Italy) Gregory Meholic, The Aerospace Corporation (USA) Jacques Moret-Bailly, Université Dijon (retired) (France) Jayant Narlikar, IUCAA(emeritus) and College de France (India, France) ........................ 20 Marcos Cesar Danhoni Neves, State University of Maringá (Brazil) Charles D. Orth, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (USA) R. David Pace, Lyon College (USA) Georges Paturel, Observatoire de Lyon (France) Jean-Claude Pecker, College de France (France) Anthony L. Peratt, Los Alamos National Laboratory (USA) Bill Peter, BAE Systems Advanced Technologies (USA) David Roscoe, Sheffield University (UK) Malabika Roy, George Mason University (USA) Sisir Roy, George Mason University (USA) .................................................................... 30 Konrad Rudnicki, Jagiellonian University (Poland) Domingos S.L. Soares, Federal University of Minas Gerais (Brazil) John L. West, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology (USA) James F. Woodward, California State University, Fullerton (USA) New signers of the Open letter since publication Scientists and Engineers Garth A Barber, independent researcher, UK Martin John Baker, Loretto School Musselburgh, UK Peter J Carroll, Psychonaut Institute, UK Roger Y. Gouin, Ecole Superieure d'Electricite, France John Murray, Sunyata Composite Ltd, UK Jonathan Chambers, University of Sheffield, UK ................................................................. 40 Michel A. Duguay, Laval University, Canada Qi Pan, Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge, UK Fred Rost, University of NSW (Emeritus), Australia Louis Hissink, Consulting Geologist, Australia Hetu Sheth, Earth Sciences, Indian Institute of Technology Bombay, India Lassi Hyvärinen, IBM(Ret), France Max Whisson, University of Melbourne, Australia R.S.Griffiths, CADAS, UK Adolf Muenker, Brane Industries, USA Emre Isik Akdeniz University Turkey .................................. 50 Felipe de Oliveira Alves, Federal University of Minas Gerais, Brazil Jean-Marc Bonnet-Bidaud, Service d'Astrophysique, CEA, France Kim George, Curtin University of Technology, Australia Tom Van Flandern, Meta Research, USA Doneley Watson, IBM (ret.), USA Fred Alan Wolf, Have Brains / Will Travel, USA Robert Wood, IEEE, Canada D. W. Harris, L-3 Communications, USA Eugene Sittampalam, Engineering consultant, Sri Lanka Joseph.B. Krieger, Brooklyn College, CUNY, USA ............................................................ 60 Pablo Vasquez, New Jersey Institute of Technology, USA Peter F. Richiuso, NASA, KSC, USA Roger A. Rydin, University of Virginia (Emeritus), USA Stefan Rydstrom, Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden Sylvan J. Hotch, The MITRE Corporation (Retired), USA Thomas R. Love, CSU Dominguez Hills, USA Andrew Coles, Embedded Systems, USA Eit Gaastra, infinite universe researcher, The Netherlands Franco Selleri, Università di Bari, Dipartimento di Fisica, Italy Gerald Pease, The Aerospace Corporation, USA .............................................................. 70 S.N. Arteha, Space Research Institute, Russia Miroslaw Kozlowski, Warsaw University (emeritus), Poland John Hartnett, School of Physics, University of Western Australia, Australia Robert Zubrin, Pioneer Astronautics, USA Tibor Gasparik, SUNY at Stony Brook, USA Alexandre Losev, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, Bulgaria Henry Hall, University of Manchester, UK José da Silva, Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, Brazil Markus Rohner, Griesser AG, Switzerland William C. Mitchell, Institute for Advanced Cosmological Studies, USA ............................. 80 Aurea Garcia-Rissmann, UFSC, Brazil Cristian R. Ghezzi, Universidade Estadual de Campinas, Brazil Daniel Nicolato Epitácio Pereira, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Gregory M. Salyards, US Naval Sea Systems Command (ret.), USA Joseph A. Rybczyk, Independent Researcher, USA Luiz Carlos Jafelice, Federal University of the Rio Grande do Norte, Brazil Michael Sosteric, Athabasca University, Canada Steven Langley Guy, University of Elizabeth (Physics Department), Australia Robert Fritzius, Shade Tree Physics, USA Irineu Gomes Varella, Escola Municipal de Astrofísica, Brazil ............................................... 90 Luiz Carlos Barbosa, Unicamp, Brazil Mauro Cosentino, University of São Paulo, Brazil Moacir Lacerda, Univeersidade Federal de Mato Grosso do Sul, Brazil Roberto Assumpcao, PUC Minas, Brazil Roberto Lopes Parra, University of Sao Paulo, Brazil Ronaldo Junio Camppos Batista, Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, Brazil Ermenegildo Caccese, University of Basilicata, Italy Felipe Sofia Zanuzzo, Federal University of São Carlos, Brazil Edival de Morais, Sociedade Brasileira de Física, Brazil Graham Coupe, KAZ Technology Services, Australia ....................................................... 100 Richard Wayte, independent researcher, UK Tom Walther, Southern Cross University Australia , Australia Antonio Cleiton, Laboratório de Sistemas Complexos - UFPI, Brazil Sergey Karpov, L.V.Kirensky Institute of Physics Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia Wagner Patrick Junqueira de Souza Coelho Nicácio, Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, Brazil Sokolov Vladimir, Special Astrophysical Observatory of RAS, Russia Edwin G. Schasteen, TAP-TEN Research Foundation International, USA Gerry Zeitlin, openseti.org, USA Henry H. Bauer, Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University, USA Yasha Fard,H.R. Cosmology Institute, Canada .................................................................. 110 Gordon Petrie, High Altitude Observatory, NCAR, USA, Jose B. Almeida, University of Minho, Portugal, G.Srinivasan, Independent_Researcher, India, David Blackford, Independent_Researcher, UK Henry Reynolds, UC Santa Cruz, USA, Alberto Bolognesi, Independent Researcher, Italy Paramahamsa Tewari, Nuclear Power Corporation (ret.),India Jouko Seppänen, Helsinki University of Technology, Finland, Dr. Robert Bennett, Kolbe Center, USA, Hilton Ratcliffe, Astronomical Society of South Africa, South Africa ....................................... 120 Roberto Caimmi, Astronomy Department, Padua University, Italy Tobias Keller, ETH (SFIT) Zurich, Earth Sciences, Switzerland, Deborah Foch, Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, USA, Cristiane Ribeiro Bernardes, Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, Brazil Eric Blievernicht. TRW, USA Arkadiusz Jadczyk, International Institute of Mathematical Physics, Lithuania DEAN L MAMAS, Independent Researcher, USA Jean de Pontcharra, Commissariat à l'Energie Atomique, France Gerardus D. Bouw, Baldwin-Wallace College, USA Harold E. Puthoff, Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin, USA. .......................................... 130 Nainan. K. Varghese, Independent Researcher, India, Andrew Kulikovsky, Independent Researcher, Australia Alan Rees, Independent Researcher, Sweden Wieslaw Sztumski, Silesian University, Poland Lars Wåhlin,Colutron Research Corporation,USA Udayan Chakravarty, Independent Researcher, India Georg Gane, Independent Researcher, Germany Robin Whittle, Independent Researcher, Australi, Riccardo Scarpa, European Southern Observatory, Italy, Olivier Marco, European Southern Observatory, France .................................................. 140 Joseph Garcia, International Radiation Protection, Germany, Josef Lutz, Chemnitz University of Technology, Germany, Nigel Edwards, Independent Researcher, Australia Hermann Dürkop, Nabla Systemberatung, Germany, Klaus Fischer, Universität Trier, Germany, Dieter Schumacher, Independent Researcher, Germany Rudolf Kiesslinger, Independent Researcher, Germany Werner Holzmüller, University Leipzig, Germany Gerd Schulte, Independent Researcher, Germany Stuart Eves, Independent Researcher, UK .................................................................... 150 Sol Aisenberg, International Technology Group, USA Hartmut Warm, Independent Researcher, Germany Richard Gancarczyk, University of Nottingham, UK Steve Humphry, Murdoch University, Australia Alberto Bolognesi, Università di Perugia, Italy Aaron Hill, Independent Researcher, USA, Daniele Carosati, Armenzano Observatory, Italy Brendan Dean, H.R. Cosmology Institute, Canada W. Jim Jastrzebski, Warsaw University, Poland Hans-Dieter Radecke, Independent Researcher, Germany .............................................. 160 Gero Rupprecht, European Southern Observatory, Germany Rainer Herrmann TEWS-Elektronik Germany Mawell P Davis Independent Researcher New Zealand Felix Pharand University of Montreal Canada Gordon E. Mackay Independent Researcher USA Jerry Bergman Northwest State University USA Tibor Gasparik SUNY at Stony Brook USA Rei Gunn University of Nantucket USA Jan Mugele Independent Researcher Germany Jorge Ales Corona Independent Researcher Spain ....................................................... 170 Dave Sagar Independent Researcher USA Benjamin I. Iglesias Independent Researcher Spain Alper Kozan Independent Researcher Turkey Sinan Alis Eyuboglu Twin Observatories Turkey Esat Rennan Pekünlü University of EGE Turkey Andrew Rigg Independent Researcher Australia Anne M. Hofmeister Washington U. USA Thomas Riedel Independent researcher Denmark Quentin Foreman IEEE New Zealand Robert Martinek McMaster University Canada ............................................................... 180 Marc Berndl University of Toronto Canada Y. P. Varshni University of Ottawa Canada Helen Workman Independent researcher Canada Bob Criss Washington University USA Richard Tobey Independent researcher USA Steve McMahon Independent researcher USA Eugene Savov, Independent researcher, Bulgaria Sol Aisenberg, International Technology Group, USA Morris Anderson, Independent researcher, USA Paul LaViolette, The Starburst Foundation, U.S.A. ............................................................ 190 Lars Woldseth, Independent researcher, Norway Robert L. Brueck, Independent researcher, USA Seetesh Pandé, Universite Claude Bernard, Lyon France TAHIR MAQSOOD, PSA, PAKISTAN Mario Cosentino, Independent researcher, France Paul Richard Price, Independent researcher, United States José M?df; Cat Casanovas, Independent researcher, Spain Hartmut Traunmüller, University of Stockholm, Sweden Ott Köstner, Independent researcher, Estonia Ethan Skyler, Independent researcher, USA ................................................................ 200 Bozidar Kornic, Independent researcher, USA William F. Hamilton, Independent researcher, U.S.A. Joel Morrison, Independent researcher, USA Nico F. Benschop, Amspade Research, Netherlands Aaron Blake, USAF, USA Charles Sven, Independent Researcher, USA Frederico V. F., Lima Universidade de Sao Paulo, Brazil Gabriele Manzotti, Independent Researcher, Italy Robert O. Myers, ROM Technologies, USA James R. Frass, Independent Researcher, Canada ................................................................ 210 Philip Lilien, Independent Researcher, USA M. Ross Fergus, University of Memphis, USA Arnold Wittkamp, Independent Researcher, Netherlands Sonu Bhaskar, Council of Scientific and Industrial Research, India Herbert J. Spencer, Independent Researcher, Canada Andrei Kirilyuk, Institute of Metal Physics of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Ukraine Christian Jooss, Institut fuer Materialphysik, University of Goettingen, Germany Sonu Bhaskar, BCISR, India Dimi Chakalov, Independent Researcher, Bulgaria Herb Doughty, Independent Researcher, USA .............................................................. 220 Robert F. Beck, Independent Researcher, UK Ana Cristina Oliveira, Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, Brazil John Wey, Idaho National Laboratory, USA Jorge Francisco Maldonado Serrano, UIS, Colombia Pasquale Galianni, Dipartimento di Fisica Università di Lecce, Italy Tuomo Suntola, Independent Researcher, Finland Martín López-Corredoira, Instituto de Astrofísica de Canarias, Spain Michael A. Ivanov, Belarus State University of Informatics and Radioelectronics, Belarus Richard Hillgrove, Independent Researcher, New Zealand .............................................. 229
All I know about Hermes Trismestigus is that he knew everything between earth and heaven. The Bible is like every other thing in the universe, people experience and understand it differently, since people are different... that's why you don't recognize my view of "Jehova".
Incidently, I read somewhere that the only pronunciation of "YHVH" that is more likely than others to be wrong, is "Jehovah" Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! the guy misread "YHVH" with "(Eloha)" under it, to mean that the vowels in YHVH were the same as in Eloha... or something very close to this, anyway, I read this long ago. I think Yaweh is a safer bet... But anyway, "your view" of the entity in question i find pretty valid... It just isn't the guy written about in the bible, is all Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I think you'd like Hermetic Philosophy, though... legend is that Abraham was his disciple.
Not all religions have the contradictions that mainstream Christianity and Judaism have. People want to have faith, and that's not a terrible thing. But they can be misled by paradoxical faiths from the Middle East such as Christianity and Judaism.
It is a mere fact and not an opinion and very inevitable that there are people who joined religious organizations because of stupidities.
well maybe, but i'm not part of an organisation, just a belief system based on 1 presupposition: There us a God. And your believe system is very similar and also unprovable There is no God You prove my presupossed idea false, and I will do the same to yours.
************* M*W: But you lie once again. It is a fact and not an opinion that I don't belong to any religious organization, stupid or not. I am adamantly opposed to religion because of its stupidities. I am adamantly opposed to christians due to their stupidities as well.
My post when I wrote it had nothing to do with wether a creator existed or not. I'm agnostic which means I don't believe in the existence or the non-existence of god, which I believe is the only sensible way to look at it. But anyway, my post had to do with the stupidity of religion. In the 21st century religion is more exposed than ever on it's stupidity and distorted view of the creator IF there is one.
