Islam Got It First...

Discussion in 'History' started by Shadow1, Jan 23, 2010.

?

what? uuh, what?

Poll closed Jan 21, 2013.
  1. uuuh...

    75.0%
  2. whatever

    25.0%
  3. hmm...i told you...

    50.0%
  4. what?

    25.0%
  5. ...

    50.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
    SPONSORED BY:
    Islam Got It First
    The tiling in medieval Islamic architecture turns out to embody a mathematical insight that Westerners thought they had discovered only 30 years ago.
    By Mary Carmichael | Newsweek Web Exclusive

    Ancient, closely held religious secrets; messages encoded on the walls of Middle Eastern shrines; the divine golden ratio—readers of a recent issue of the journal Science must have wondered if they'd mistakenly picked up "The Da Vinci Code" instead. In stretches of intricate tiling on several 500-year-old Islamic buildings, Peter Lu and Paul Steinhardt wrote, they'd spotted a large fragment of a mathematical pattern that was unknown to Western science until the 1970s. Islam gave the world algebra, from the Arabic al-jabr, a term referring to a basic equation. But this pattern is far from basic; it comes from much higher math. "The ridiculous thing is, this pattern has been staring Westerners in the face all this time," says Keith Critchlow, author of the book "Islamic Patterns." "We simply haven't been able to read it." Now that we can, though, it is serving as a startling indication of how accomplished medieval-era Muslims may have been.


    SPONSORED BY:
    Islam Got It First
    The tiling in medieval Islamic architecture turns out to embody a mathematical insight that Westerners thought they had discovered only 30 years ago.
    By Mary Carmichael | Newsweek Web Exclusive

    * Share: Facebook
    * Digg
    * Tweet
    * LinkedIn
    * Buzz up!

    * Del.icio.us
    * Stumble It!
    * submit to reddit
    * Fark It!
    * Newsvine

    * Tools: 0 Post Your Comment
    * Print
    * Email

    SPONSORED BY

    Email To A Friend

    Please fill in the following information and we'll email this link.
    Your Email Address
    Recipient's Email Address

    Separate multiple addresses with commas
    SPONSORED BY


    Ancient, closely held religious secrets; messages encoded on the walls of Middle Eastern shrines; the divine golden ratio—readers of a recent issue of the journal Science must have wondered if they'd mistakenly picked up "The Da Vinci Code" instead. In stretches of intricate tiling on several 500-year-old Islamic buildings, Peter Lu and Paul Steinhardt wrote, they'd spotted a large fragment of a mathematical pattern that was unknown to Western science until the 1970s. Islam gave the world algebra, from the Arabic al-jabr, a term referring to a basic equation. But this pattern is far from basic; it comes from much higher math. "The ridiculous thing is, this pattern has been staring Westerners in the face all this time," says Keith Critchlow, author of the book "Islamic Patterns." "We simply haven't been able to read it." Now that we can, though, it is serving as a startling indication of how accomplished medieval-era Muslims may have been.
    SUBSCRIBE Click Here to subscribe to NEWSWEEK and save up to 88% >>

    No one knows what the architects of the complex pattern in the tiles named it a half millennium ago. Today, scientists call it a "quasiperiodic crystal with forbidden symmetry." It's forbidden not for any religious reason, of course, but because at first glance it appears impossible to construct. Take a pattern of triangular tiles, rotate it one third the way around, and the resulting pattern is identical. The same goes for rectangular tiles (which look the same rotated one fourth the way around) or hexagonal tiles (one sixth the way around). But a grid made purely of pentagons simply can't exist. The five-sided shapes don't fit together without leaving gaps, and there's no way to put them in a pattern that looks the same when turned one fifth the way around.

    The breakthrough that took the "forbidden" out of that "forbidden symmetry" was to use two shapes, not one, to build a fivefold-symmetrical grid. In 1973, having given up on pentagons, mathematician Sir Roger Penrose designed a fivefold pattern with shapes he called "kites" and "darts." He was the first Westerner (and at the time, he thought, the first person) to do so, and his creation turned out to have fascinating mathematical properties. Any given fragment of it, containing a finite number of kites and darts, could be infinitely divided into a never-repeating pattern of smaller kites and darts.
    As the number of small shapes in the pattern increased, the ratio of kites to darts approached the "golden ratio," a number practically sacred to mathematicians. Discovered by Pythagoras, the golden ratio is irrational, which means it extends to an infinite number of decimal places. (The actual number is 1.618033989 ... and so on.) It is linked to the famous Fibonacci sequence and cited in the writings of astronomer Johannes Kepler and, yes, Leonardo da Vinci. It is also found at the atomic level. In the 1980s, Steinhardt, a physicist at Princeton, armed with Penrose's insight, found that some chemicals had their atoms arranged in a "quasicrystalline" shape like that of the fivefold grid.

    Medieval Muslims apparently figured out at least some of this math. On the wall of one shrine in Iran, Lu found, two types of large tiles are divided into smaller tiles of the same shapes, in numbers that approximate the golden ratio. The builders certainly knew about the ratio, having inherited all the Greek science and curated it, says Critchlow. "The human creation was imitating, in abstract fashion, the wondrous creation of God," says Gulru Necipoglu, a professor of Islamic art at Harvard. Some geometric patterns, for instance, evoked the planets and stars. And throughout the medieval era and onwards, says Steinhardt, Muslims "were fascinated by fivefold symmetry and were always trying to incorporate it into their designs. Where the patterns ended up with gaps, they would cleverly place a door or a windowsill there so you couldn't tell." In the buildings examined by Lu, they succeeded.

    Although the Penrose-patterned tiles date to the 14th and 15th centuries, the same shapes of tiles "were used all over the medieval Islamic world to generate all sorts of patterns" for hundreds of years before and after that, says Lu. The Topkapi scroll, a Persian artifact from the late 15th or early 16th century, lists many such designs. There may also be clues to ancient Muslims' mathematical prowess in other tiling on mosques in Iran and Turkey, madrassas in Baghdad and shrines in Afghanistan and India. They would fit nicely into the increasingly common image of the medieval Islamic world as an advanced society. Scholars now know that Muslims of that era could solve equations with variables to the power of 3 and above, which are harder than the classic quadratic "x2" ones fundamental to algebra. They also had mechanical "computers" and knew considerably more about medicine and astronomy than Europeans of the time.
    What has not yet been found, unfortunately, is any record of how early Muslims designed the fivefold patterns and conceptualized the math lurking in them, since few Muslim scholars wrote down their discoveries for wide dissemination. "You absolutely do not have to understand the higher math to be able to do it," says David Salesin, a computer scientist at the University of Washington. Lu agrees that there's no need to project a modern understanding of quasicrystals onto an ancient culture—but he also says the pattern design was no accident. "No matter how it was constructed," he adds, "it's a stunning achievement." Particularly now that the world has eyes to see it.





    who is not interested, stay away, (friendly request)

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    Why do you feel this is significant? The Arabs were astronomers and mathematicians, so its not surprising that they would think in constructs which are abstract and multidimensional.

    I think the more important developments of societies based on Qur'anic principles were the principle of innate liberty of every human being regardless of colour, race or religion, the separation of church and state after al-Mutawwakil decreed the Qur'an is not divine and the common sense notion of separating both education and healthcare from religious clerics to specialised secular professions. The establishment of hospitals with specialisations in different fields at a time when the ill were still being sent to recover in monasteries, the establishment of madrassas or schools for all, the division of educational institutions into undergraduate and graduate institutions, the provision of educational grants to deserving students who could not afford it and the pluralism of religious debate in court are all hallmarks of how tribal societies changed simply by embracing the principles of Islam. These are all things that the world takes for granted today, but they only arose under the pluralism of Islamic societies.

    e.g. The University of Al Karaouine in Fez, Morocco is recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records as the oldest degree-granting university in the world with its founding in 859 by Fatima al-Fihri.

    Also in the 9th century, Bimaristan medical schools were founded in the medieval Islamic world, where medical degrees and diplomas were issued to students of medicine who were qualified to be a practicing Doctor of Medicine.

    Al-Azhar [Islamic] University, founded in Cairo, Egypt in 975, was a Jami'ah university which offered a variety of post-graduate degrees (Ijazah),nd had individual faculties for a theological seminary, Islamic law and jurisprudence, Arabic grammar, Islamic astronomy, early Islamic philosophy, and logic in Islamic philosophy
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,203
    Sometimes creativity is assisted by limitations. In this case the limitation on depicting human images. One may admire the accomplishments of a culture, but it makes no statement on the fundamental truth of it's guiding superstitions. I seem to remember a certain culture building the first intercontinental ballistic missile, but few people these days would consider that culture to be admirable.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    Perhaps such a limitation would be useful in the Age of the Celebrity Spectacle.
     
  9. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,203
    Islam is the ultimate celebrity spectacle.
     
  10. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    You see, this is propaganda. Islam, the religion, didn't get anything first. Certainly not math. Geesh.

    Yes, I do agree that Persian mathematicians and architects developed some interesting mathematical concepts. However, these concepts were and are not "Islamic" that'd be like called Calculus Christian Math, electricity .. Christian electricity, your computer a Christian computer, hell pretty much everything in your modern life from the internet you're reading this from the car you drove today as "Christian".

    Yes, of the millions and millions of people who lived in the ME and were Muslim, some made a few new discoveries. However, if you consider how LONG of a period they had you'll actually find that the advancements that they made were small and slow to be developed.

    IMO being ruled by theocracies stunted development in the ME, it certainly doesn't seem to have advanced it. Some things, like sculpting and painting the human form, are retarded after ME people were conquered by Arabs. That's a fact of history. Look at Greek statues from 500BCE and compare them to the work 1000 years LATER when Muslims were working stone. It's a huge regression.






    Anyway, the point is, you're falling for religious propaganda. Surely you don't that think the discovery of electricity was predicated on the worship of Jesus as Christ the Messiah? Do you?



    Do you??!!??!??!?!
     
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    lol
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    One of the points [obvious] which I realised after reading about the establishment of madrassas, is the point about access to education. Before the advent of waqf schools in the Arabian peninsula, education was available only to the elite who could afford to hire tutors. The madrassa brought letters to the masses, paid for by the state. The hospitals brought medical care to the masses, irrespective of religion [previously, there was the inhibition of going to a religious institution for medical care and many illnesses were seen as the work of the devil rather than rational problems with the structure and function of the body]. The university set up by Fatima al Fihri catered to Jews and Christians as well as Muslims [Maimonedes was associated with it as was Nicolas Cleynaerts] and along with others in the region, was probably responsible for the rapid rise of Islam in the region after the first 100 years of Islam, when only the Hejaz Arabs were Muslims.

    Its also probably why the assimilation of the Arabised is so complete as compared to other places where assimilation is still a thorn in the side of the states.

    The success of the academic structure is evident by the fact that every single university in the world follows the same framework of educational tiers as al Azhar and Al-Karaouin
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  13. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
    .

    wait wait wait!! i didnt mean by "islam" got it first, that the relegion got it, effcorse not the relegion, sorry my bad, but i was refering to the islamic empire, or more refering to the arabic empire in that time,
     
  14. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160

    first of all, i don't beleive with islam invention or chiristian invention, as i said, i was refering to the arabic empire,

    also, pearsian are who inventend mathematiqyes, and arabs developped it, when they leard it from pearsians,

    and what's going on in your mind????!!!! electrecity predicated by jesus, chirist and messiah,????!!! are you ok??!!

    i don't know how do you think, this topic is about the arab inventions, not to fight about christanity ro islam or budhaism, ok?
    and dude! you really need to read soem history book, messiah?? christ??? who invented electrevity, was tomas edison, not messiah or chist or whatever

    anyway, when i said islam gotit fist, i meant to say the muslim arabic empire got it first, and why cant you even admit that we had a very good history of science, maths and architecture?
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    Friendly advice: before responding to Michael or Geoff, read their old posts.

    You'll save yourself a lot of headache
     
  16. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
    .

    LOL, you're right,
    hehehe, good advice thanks
     
  17. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
    .

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    the problem of them, that they relate my previous topics to another topics, why are they talking about somethign else, wich i felt that they are talkign agressive,

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    while we're discussing about the arabs inventions,

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,378
    They also arose in other places and times, more or less independently of Islam.

    And they mostly vanished in Islamic countries, especially as the religion became stronger and more institutionalized.

    Odd how that kind of language appears obviously deranged when it comes from other cultures and belief systems.

    But a thread title like "Islam got it first" seems perfectly natural, eh?

    As we see with the Kurds, for example, or the tribes in Afghanistan.

    As with most praise of Islam's influence, these references universally are of a distant, somewhat vague, and variously interpretable past.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  19. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    OK, yes, the Arabs conquored Persia and after subdueing them, continued with the development of basic mathamatical principals.


    That aside, I was wondering, what were the 5 greatest cities founded and build by the Arabs of the Arab Empire?


    Having known Mathmaticians I sort of have the feeling that they are born as mathmaticians. I mean, there's something in the way they think that is mathmatical regardless of where they live or what religion they are. So, I often think of city building as a measure of how great a Civilization was. I mean, a city requried the cooperation of many many different people with a great variety of skills.


    So, with this in mind, what are the 5 great Cities that were founded and build by the Arabs?


    Thanks
    Michael
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    iceaura:

    Many things "vanished" in other societies with European encroachment. Indeed, many societies vanished altogether.
     
  21. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
    .

    before you start accusing and postign replyies, make a search about it, and be sure of what are you writing, i'm going to save my self from a headhacke, so try to make a search and educate your self,
    it seems that your are talking agressive, hmm, i wonder why is that, i already said, if you're not interrested, or ur going to say no not true, don't post any reply, i already said, who's not interrested, don't post,

    about the cities built by arabs, kairouan, medina, at saudi arabia, mecca, and others, and i'm not talkign just a bout muslim arabs, i'm talkign about all arabs, even before islam, also, don't you see in all the arabic cites, even that you don't call it arabic, that they all use the arabic architecture and stuff, ?? maybe i'm wrong,

    if you were racist, or not interrested, or just cant accept the fact that we had a gr8 hstory too, and if you don't accept the fact that we're good people not terrorists, stay away, you don't spammers around
     
  22. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,160
    .

    and by did you maked this threat title a big problem, also, it's not me who just wroght it like that, it's in an american news paper, and the title is "islam got it first"
    i already posted the link
    :bugeye:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    :shrug:
     
  23. Creeping Death Out of darkness came light Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    115
    All those mathematics and astronomy did originate from the middle east but their origins pre date Islam and a stem up from ancient sumerian and akadian cultures. This is definitely not a muslim discovery it was merely passed on to the next culture within that region.
     

Share This Page