Islam and its factual claims

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Unconcept, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Unconcept Registered Senior Member


    I wanted to present the strongest purely scientific and historic evidences for islam, they're not a definitive proof, if they were we would hear scientists and historians converting all the time. I'll also show aother few embryological passages from the Qur'an and Hadiths that I'm near certain that they are scientific errors simply, I already asked 2 people about some of these errors and they responded that they're indeed errors, but I wanted more testimonies preferably from people knowledgeable about developmental biology.
    I'm doing this because I think objectively islam has wayyy less scientific mistakes than the bible for example. Lots of anti-islam people might say the Qur'an says earth is flat citing some verses like "'And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out), [71:19], but the word for "the earth" can mean: "the ground, as meaning the surface of the earth, on which we tread and fit and lie". according to Lane's Lexicon Volume 1, p. 48
    There's many others such cases, since I used to be devoutly religious I can say I devoted a lot of time studying such islamic texts that talk about scientific and historic things, and I've found that almost all of them hold true today. My goal in this thread was to get people enlightened about the strongest of them, and knowledgeable people to confirm the errors in contrast of some strong alleged miracles in favor of islam. In other words, this is an objective study to judge this religion based on its ability to make factual claims. If the claimed facts turn out to be false, then the religion is false.

    Strong alleged evidences for Islam:
    1- The name Haman is mentioned 6 times in the Qur'an in verses [28:6], [28:8], [28:38], [29:39], [40:24] and [40,36]. The Qur’an records Pharaoh having ordered a man entitled ‘Haman’ to bake bricks for construction.
    "Pharaoh said: "O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself: therefore, O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" Abdullah Yusuf Ali's Translation, The Meaning of The Holy Qur'an [28:38]
    According to: W. Wreszinski, Aegyptische Inschriften Aus Dem K.K. Hof Museum In Wien, 1906, J. C. Hinrichs’sche Buchhandlung: Leipzig, I 34, p. 130.

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    is the name of the person, transcribed as ḥmn-ḥ by Ranke.

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    the profession of this person hmn-h(?) in German reads “Vorsteherder Steinbruch arbeiter”, I think it best translates to “the chief/overseer of quarrymen”
    But there is another part, in the middle of the inscription, that was not translated by Wreszinski.

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    It means “of Amun”. Wreszinski probably left that middle part without translation since anyone in the field would know these signs.
    So muslims would claim a miracle like this:
    “All of which leads us to question how the author of the Qur’an knew to entitle the man in charge of construction supplies ‘Haman.’ With the language of the hieroglyphics dead and gone for over 500 years, and such titles presumably extinct as well, what was the source of such knowledge in Muhammad’s day?” [God'ed p. 70]

    However the egyptian names are written without vowels, what we find in Ranke's Dictionary is that his name is ḥmn-ḥ
    The following should explain

    “The Egyptian hieroglyphs disregard the vowels. In other words, with this system one arrives at words that are connected by vowels. For example, let us take the word "beautiful". Its transcription in the Egyptian hieroglyphics is nfr. To ease the pronunciation of these three consonants, they are bound together with "e-sounds", which leads to nefer. This pronunciation bears no relation with the original pronunciation of the Egyptian language. It is solely a convention to enable communication among the modern scholars or even commonfolk interested in ancient Egyptians hieroglyphs. It is not surprising that the scholarly pronunciation of Egyptian hieroglyphs (even consonants!) also differs.”

    “Although it is true that (in many cases) we do not know which vowels should be inserted between those consonants, this also means that the insertion of the vowel “a” is just as arbitrary as the insertion of the vowel “e”. The hieroglyphic name transliterated as “hmn” is usually pronounced “Hemen” in academic communication.”

    The fact is Ranke writes in his dictionary about that name (ḥmn-ḥ)
    Die ägyptischen Personennamen. Bd. I, p. 240 available online
    ob abgekürzt für ḥmn-ḥtp(.w) ?
    which means “whether abbreviated for ḥmn-ḥtp(.w) ?”
    Ranke says that the hieroglyphic signs which are transliterated as hmn-h are an abbreviation for another name, and, although he is apparently not fully certain, most likely they stand for hmn-htp(.w), i.e. the name that is listed in the next entry, No. 26.

    In fact, another egyptologist holds this view in an article which happens to only be available in german too
    “Dr. Katharina Stegbauer vom ägyptologischen Institut der Universität Leipzig stimmt dem zu: „Der komplette Name für das Kürzel lautet Hemen-hetep.”
    Google Translates it as
    “Dr. Catherine Stegbauer true Egyptological Institute of the University of Leipzig to the: "The complete name for the shortcut is Hemen-hetep.”

    Also this is said on the article
    “„Altägyptische Hieroglyphen bestehen aus Konsonantenlauten. Die Vokalisation ist unklar“, erläutert der Berliner Ägyptologe Professor Dr. Jürgen Osing. Somit könne selbst in der Theorie der Name „Haman“ in dieser Form gar nicht gesichert werden, sondern allenfalls ein „Hmn“. „Doch auf dem Pfosten befindet sich nicht einmal der Name `Hmn´, sondern `Hmn-h´“, so Osing.”
    Which basically means that the name could actually be Haman in theory if the transcription was ḥmn not ḥmn-ḥ

    This should totally eliminate this alleged divine knowledge, but actually I had one idea that I know no muslim apologetic on the internet used and wasn't said on the internet anywhere, I'm not making the case to argue for islam, I'm just sharing what is objectively true.
    First, arabic can't have 3 vowelless consonants consecutively unlike for example ‘bench’ or ‘tanks’ in english, I don’t have a source for this but it’s very apparent for anyone learned in arabic. also the 3 arabic long vowels count as such consonant. Only the imported words in modern arabic can have 3 vowelless consecutive consonants or a long vowel followed by 2 vowelless consonants like ‘mAtch’
    Note: I'm treating 'A' as a long vowel of 'a'
    The thing is both ‘A’s in Haman’s arabic name in the Qur’an are long vowels, so it’s pronounced ‘hAmAn’, it’s hypothetically possible that ḥmn-ḥ in Ranke’s dictionary could be pronounced HAmAnH, or HamAnH. And in the arabicization of the name, the divine wrote it as ‘hAmAn’ because classical arabic never had and wouldn’t allow 2 vowelless consonants after a long vowel ‘A’, so hypothetically god removed the final 'h' of HAmAnh
    Egyptian names can have 4 consecutive vowelless consonants like Panhsj

    Still The objections for this claim are as follows:
    ḥmn-ḥ could be an abreviation of Hemen-hetep, this translates as Hemen is satisfied or merciful, where Hemen is an Egyptian deity

    "The Chief of the workers in the stone-quarries", hmm. Actually Bucaille missed out the last 2 words of his title; it's actually "Chief of the workers in the stone-quarries of Amun" -, so it doesn't sound like he was chief at all quarries.

    Also the Qur'an verse talks about baking bricks out of clay. Mud/clay bricks with straw were baked, but stone? The haman on the doorpost (not stela) inscription was involved with quarried stone, but it says nothing about clay.

    It is also a stretch to assume that this person in charge of some quarry workers was also Pharoah's chief architect.

    But still this is definitely a big thing because:
    How can someone entitled ‘A chief of stone-quarries of Amun’ be the egyptian deity Hemen-hetep?
    ‘A chief of stone-quarries’ could just as well build using baked clay bricks I guess
    ‘A chief of stone-quarries of Amun’, ‘of Amun’ doesn’t necessarily imply that he was the chief of masons working at the temples of Amun, it could be some kind of metaphor if Amun was a prominent god at the time. Why didn’t the transcription say something like ‘of the temples of Amun’ then? Even if it meant so, that’s a high post, so maybe the Pharaoh could order him for something different a few times. For the record Pharaoh is recorded in the Qur'an saying he's god.
    We’d need a deepy analyse from egyptologists and historians to clarify this.
    Most importantly of all, this is definitely a big thing to have this name in the Qur’an, how many names in Ranke’s Dictionary are entitled ‘A chief of masons’, how many of them start with the consonants ḥmn, just like the name hAmAn in the Qur’an? And I showed that the last ‘ḥ’ in ḥmn-ḥ could have been vowelless and removed in the arabicization of the name.
    How could Muhammad have gotten such a name or randomly choosed it out of a 1000?

    Some info about this:
    * Haman is mentioned in the Book of Esther part of the Christian Old Testament
    * “Zum Sprachlichen möchte ich noch einmal betonen, dass der Name Haman sowohl im Arabischen wie im Hebräischen etymologisch isoliert ist und dies auch in jeder weiteren semitischen Sprache wäre, da es hier weder einen Wortstamm *hmn noch einen solchen Wortbildungstypen gibt. Als ägyptischer Name wäre Haman zumindest sehr ungewöhnlich und bislang gänzlich unbekannt.”
    From M5fff2d8c174.0.html
    Which basically means the name Haman is not in any semitic language, because there’s no root for such word formations. As an arab speaker I can say the 3 consonants hmn don’t form a root word in arabic, all arabic words and names are derived from roots.

    But this doesn’t show us anything about whether Muhammad could have known wether Haman or HamAnh names were used in ancient egypt, is there even a chance that he could’ve known it? Did he just luckily choose it out of 1000 names because he was inspired when reading the book eshter?
    For the record, some authentic Hadiths in Musnad Ahmad record the Prophet saying that the Pharaoh’s Wife is called ‘Asseya’ which means “Someone (female) who gives medicine” and her father is called ‘Muzaħem’ which means “a rival or a competitor”, none of the wives of Merneptah and Ramses II the 2 hypothesized pharaohs by muslims are called ‘Asseya’ or even have her name’s meaning.

    2- The Amount of Rain that falls Every Year is the Same
    From Ibn Abbaas who said, “‘No year has more rain than another, but Allaah distributes it between His Creation wherever He wishes.’ Then he recited, “And We have distributed it amongst them, in order that they may remember [the Grace of Allaah] …””

    Shaikh al-Albaani said, “So it is apparent from what has preceded that even if the hadith is mawquf it has the ruling of being marfoo – because such a thing cannot be said based upon opinion and ijtihaad, and because it has been reported in marfoo form [in another narration].”

    mawquf means the chain of narrators reaches a companion of the prophet, marfoo means the chain of narrators actually reach the prophet himself (who is to be believed for everything he says)

    Except for incoming comets containing water, the Earth is kind of a closed system. Water that is evaporated must come down as rain.
    Could a 7th century arabian have known that or did he just guess it?
    I'd hope someone knows a clever observation possibility rather than just a lucky guess because I believe islam only has a few scientific errors at best.

    3- God said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad from praying at the Ka'bah (Holy Mosque):
    “Let him beware! If he does not desist, We will drag him by the naa-se-yah, a lying, sinful naa-se-ya-tin!” [96:15-16]

    The word ‘naa-se-yah’ (or ‘naa-se-ya-tin’ -- different pronunciations of the same
    word), while often translated as ‘forelock,’ in fact deserves the longer and more accurate description of “fore part of the head.”

    [miracle claim]
    Why did the Quran describe the front of the head as being lying and sinful? Why didn't the Quran say that the person was lying and sinful? What is the relationship between the front of the head and lying and sinfulness?
    If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum, in the area we call the forehead. What does physiology tell us about the function of this area? A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area,
    “The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the
    anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area.”
    [Essentials of Anatomy and Physiology. 2nd edition. St. Louis: MosbyYear Book, Inc. p. 211.]
    Also the book says, "In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression..."
    [/miracle claim]

    I think I have the answer for this.
    In the past muslims always understood it as the following and no one claimed or predicted the prefrontal part of the brain has anything to do with lying.
    From Tafsir al-Jalalayn (An exegesis of the Qur'an)
    "a lying, iniquitous forelock! (nāsiyatin: an indefinite noun substituting for a definite) — the description of this [forelock] in such terms is meant figuratively, and what is actually meant is that individual."

    It maybe a stretch to link the 'fore part of the head' to the prefrontal cortex, what about the frontal bones that protect the brain, or the frontal skin of the head?
    It's normal to have written the verse like this because for example of many of the descriptions that they could atribute to the 'evil unbeliever' like (mischievous, cunning, oppressor, etc...), only the word for lying "kaa-ze-ba" best fits the rhythmical pattern well for a word that comes in a verse soon after "za-ba-nee-yah". Some literature properties like this are what constitutes the alleged literally miracle of the Qur'an. The whole of the Qur'an is known for having a rhythmical pattern.
    And the Qur'an uses figurative speech sometimes "...And indeed there are rocks which fall down for the fear of Allah..." [2:74], should we examine the rocks to see that they have feelings of fear when they fall?

    4- Google Earth, correct direction on a straight line of 815 KM, watch this Video
    I have done the line in Google Earth myself and it's exactly like in the video, here is a file of the Places you want to check it yourself in Google Earth
    I'm totally oblivious of the astronomical ways of determining direction, can someone here tell me how this is possible?

    Now I will show some some biological errors in islamic texts, I need knowledgeable people to confirm they're errors, I want to objectively know wether that god exists or not.

    Since the methodology for apologists was to cherry pick the words meanings that fit their alleged miracles or that hold true with scientific data, to disprove an islamic passage, I'd try forcing all possible meanings of the words, and disprove every single one.

    Islamic text errors
    1- "...We made the lump into bones..." [23:12]
    Since in classical arabic dictionaries, cartilage is defined as "soft and tender bones such as those of the nose, etc...", so with some fudging, bones here can mean cartilage.
    Basically, this verse can only mean that the embryo/fetus is at one point in time formed fully of bones and/or cartilage which is rediculous OR
    formed mostly of bones and/or cartilage.
    I want to know, is there such a stage where the embryo/fetus is formed mostly of bones and/or cartilage (so let's say about 75%)?

    2- Many Hadiths talk about the cause of the resemblance of the newborn to his family and the cause of sex determination, since the words are vague, I wrote all possibilities of their interpretations, I want to know the validitiy/invalidity of them

    First: Can resemblance to the respective side of the family be affected by one of the 2 fluids (semen or follicular fluid)
    1) being dominant over the other? (Tell me if that description fit in any way)
    2) preceding the other spatially to a certain point?
    3) preceding the other chronologically (which of the parents discharges first)

    Second: Can the sex of the newborn be determined by either of the respective parent's fluid
    1) being dominant over the other? (Tell me if that description fit in any way)
    2) surrounding the other?
    3) overlying the other?

    That was long

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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    This is typical Islamic apologetics. Hardly worth commenting on, it's so absurdly stupid.
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  5. Unconcept Registered Senior Member

    I think you are just being lazy. Some things that were added here over islamic apologetics were original research by me. While No. 1 and No. 3 are just potential stuff, No. 2 and No.4 are true facts, swallow it.
    I'm actually still waiting for someone to confirm the invalidity of the 2 islamic statements interpretations even if they are ridiculous.
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  7. Chipz Banned Banned

    Number 2 wouldn't bode well for 'Allah' if everyone recognized his grace in the same year. In fact, it seems to be largely similar to the Jewish belief which was written of 500 years earlier only with slightly different emphasis. They clearly shared human action's affect on rainfall as an event. Aristotle discussed meteorological things relatively more spectacularly 1000 years earlier. Number 4 is no less spectacular than the way Native American's could create phenomenally accurate star-maps and align their structures to celestial events far in the future. This seems more impressive and if I recall correct, done much earlier in time.
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    How can there be scientific evidence for something that doesn't exist except in the beliefs of those who want to do so? You can't present facts that any supernatural being exists except in peoples minds.
  9. Ninja Registered Member

    Surely i am not the person u r looking for but i will just add hints:

    1- From embryology in quran by Hamza Andreas:
  10. Igor Trip Registered Senior Member

    Where's the Egg!

    Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed;
    Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood;
    then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump;
    then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh;
    then we developed out of it another creature.
    So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

    PICKTHAL: Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging;
    Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!

    SHAKIR: Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place,
    Then We made the seed a clot, then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators.

    The real miracle is conception where and egg and a sperm come together and create a unique baby, similar but different from its parents, and that's totally missing from the Quran.

    It also makes this mistake.
    PICKTHAL: ...His mother beareth him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years...
    PICKTHAL:...and the bearing of him and the weaning of him is thirty months,
  11. Balerion Banned Banned

    These texts are clearly written by people with absolutely no understanding of the human body or the world around them. One would think that a civilization with the means to better explain these things--and thus expose religious texts as myths--would have no place for such brutal, ignorant philosophies.

    Yet here we are, trying to reconcile them with our modern understanding. In this case, we do it semantically.
  12. Unconcept Registered Senior Member

    I don't understand all what you said. About the resemblance to the jewish belief. The Abrahamic religions scriptures and even hindu scriptures have similarities in a lot of scientific facts, they talk about a barrier between two seas, mountains are pegs and other similarities.

    Could you give references or examples?

    That's right, all personal god experience should be treated with skepticism. I only said they're evidence for islam. If we eliminate all possible naturalistic explanations:
    • interpreting a vague statement in such a manner as to guarentee that it is correct even if it bears little ressemblence to what it is linked to
    • The statement was made because without modern technology it is still possible to discern whatever it is the statement says
    • The statement just happened to turn out to be correct luckily
    If we can rule out all of these, then the origin would be unknown, it could be aliens, time travelers from the future, any supernatural, or something non-comprehensible to our brain, etc...
    However in such a case you better act as if you believe what the religion says, cause you don't want to burn in hell.

    I have read this paper, these translations (made into/of/from/out of the lump, in the lump of flesh) are all biased, there's no linguistic basis for them. The verse in the Qur'an is literally "made the 'mudgha' bones". I challenge anyone to bring a classical exegesis of the Qur'an, or a usage in the arabic language where the author used such words and meant "made of/from/out"

    @The rest of what you quoted
    the arabic word "Sabaqa" سبق is indeed literally "precede", since the hadiths say "his/her water precedes her/his water". It's a vague statement that is limited to 3 interpretations:
    • precede spatially (outrun)
    • precede chronologically (whoever discharges first)
    • precede figuratively (dominate, overpower, etc...)
    And that's cited as the cause of resemblance of the child to the respective side of the family.
    In islam you're supposed to collect all hadiths about a subject when explaining, interpreting, etc... The truth is there's a lot of narrations and they say different things, some say the newborn would resemble his parent, others say he would resemble his paternal/maternal uncles and aunts, and others say "then the resemblance is from that parent". Based on the last one especially collected with other ones, I took it as resemble the respective side of the family, which is the closest thing to science.

    The hadiths only talked about the fluids, nothing about the genes, sperm or ovum. What the writer is talking about are the dominant and recessive characteristics, with no mention about the sex-linked characteristics.
    Even if the fluids were metaphorical and what was meant was the sperm and ovum, it doesn't hold true for the dominant and recessive characteristics.
    for example the eye color, if b (recessive) is blue and B (dominant) is brown.
    If a parent has blue eye color bb and a parent has brown eye color bB, and we say the parent with bB is the dominant (thus the newborn according to the hadith should resemble him) cause he has 1 dominant allele vs 0. There's a 50% chance the newborn is gonna have a blue eye color and 50% chance he's gonna have a brown eye color.

    The other arabic word "'ala" علا is literally translated "overlie". "his/her water overlies her/his water" would be limited in interpretation to:
    • overlie as in on top of
    • overlie as in surround
    • overlie figuratively (dominate, overpower, etc...)
    And that's cited as the cause of sex determination.

    Nonsense, the hadiths talk about the fluids, nothing suggests that when the male fluid is dominant, the Y chromosome binds with the egg.

    One of the two guys I asked about this said:
    "This sounds like a corruption of something that might have a grain of truth.

    The sex of the fetus can be affected by the pH in the birth cavity. X sperm and Y sperm do well in different pH environments. Since male semen and female secretions are known to affect the pH of the birth cavity, that suggests a possible link between the discharges and the baby's sex. And even this is still under study.

    But I point out, it is only a possible link, and do not suggest that one causes the other - it's a stretch. Furthermore, it's *another* huge stretch that the *order* of fluid secretion results in a pH change."

    That's a part of the narrations I haven't talked about, Here's a hadith from Musnad Ahmad about it.
    سألت سليم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عن امرأة ترى في منامها ما يرى الرجل، فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: " من رأت ذلك منكن فأنزلت فلتغتسل ". قالت أم سلمة: أو يكون ذلك يا رسول الله؟ قال: " نعم ماء الرجل غليظ أبيض، وماء المرأة أصفر رقيق، فأيهما سبق أو علا أشبهه الولد "
    Usually it's understood like this, I'll be writing alternative lines of english and the arabic it's translated from.
    Umm Salama asked the prophet about a woman who sees what the man sees in her dream, so the prohet said
    سألت سليم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عن امرأة ترى في منامها ما يرى الرجل، فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم:
    The prophet said: Whoever sees this [erotic dream like the man] from you [women] then discharged [a liquid = nocturnal emission] she should take a bath.
    من رأت ذلك منكن فأنزلت فلتغتسل
    Umm Salama said: Does a woman's nocturnal emission (ذلك = That) exist (يكون) O Messenger of Allah?
    أو يكون ذلك يا رسول الله؟
    The prophet replied: Yes, man's liquid is white and thick, and woman's liquid (surely refering to the fluid that was discharged during the nocturnal emission) is yellow and thin, whichever of the two precedes or overlies, then the newborn resembles him.
    " قال: " نعم ماء الرجل غليظ أبيض، وماء المرأة أصفر رقيق، فأيهما سبق أو علا أشبهه الولد

    Here the prophet is talking about the liquid the woman sees after having a nocturnal emission, and he said it was yellow and that it has something to do with the resemblance of the newborn. But the female lubrication after a nocturnal emission is whitish clear and has nothing to do with the newborn. I theorized to a muslim about this, that he could've seen a woman discharge a yellow fluid when she was sick and maybe knew about the real yellow fluid (follicular fluid) with an autopsy and thought it's discharged sometimes and it has something to do with resemblance.
    He said:
    I don't see anythign wrong here
    she discharges which means she has a functioning reproductive system
    active reproductive system is the cause of the dream discharge
    one good rebuttal is that the hadeeth doesn't mean that dream discharge is responsible for the ressemblence and but the existence of active reproductive system.

    So I told him so you want the hadith to be understood like this
    Umm Salama asked the prophet about a woman who sees what the man sees in her dream, so the prohet said
    Whoever sees this [erotic dream like the man] from you [women], then discharged [a liquid = nocturnal emission] she should take a bath.
    Does an activity of a woman's reproductive system [that's responsible for the nocturnal emission] (ذلك = That) exist O Messenger of Allah?
    The prophet replied: Yes [the reproductive system causes the female nocturnal emission], man's liquid is white and thick, and woman's liquid is yellow and thin, whichever of the two precedes or overlies, then the newborn resembles him.

    So you're supposed to get that the prophet anwered yes that the reproductive system causes the nocturnal emission (Even though likely no islamic scholar ever understood the hadith like this and the understanding of the word 'that' to refer to the activity of the reproductive system is ugly and abnormal), but then the prophet decided FOR SOME WEIRD REASON to talk about the semen and the follicular fluid which is from different activities of the reproductive system from different organs.
    He hasn't replied to me about it since, huh!
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  13. Unconcept Registered Senior Member

    I retract this statement, the sperm and the egg are haploids, if a parent had a dominant allele and a recessive one, the gamete gets one of either. And by this logic, I wanted to call the gamete that has more dominant alleles the dominant one. Anyway there's no evidence the fluids can mean "something it contains". That was just for the sake of argument.
  14. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    To the extent the Quran gets anything right about embryology, they borrowed this knowledge from the Greeks, a bunch of polytheists. And even then it doesn't prove polytheism is true.
  15. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    LOL! The Maya! Seems like something you would know with all your research?

    I watched the Google maps video. I don't get it. All I saw him do was draw a line? The shortest distance from point A to point B is ALWAYS a straight line?
  16. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    He borrowed it from stories of earlier days. This is not the slightest mystical or special.

    Well, you'd be pretty wrong then, apparently. It's an utterly easy guess, and it isn't even phrased in naturalistic language. The concept dates back to Greek naturalism, as I recall. Look up stocheia.

    Because dragging a person around by his cock would have made everyone else quite uncomfortable. Does the Quran have a remedy for this problem of lying? Which lobe of the brain does the Quran recommend extracting to prevent further lying? What, it's not in there? Odd. Seems to know all about it - you know, by tugging a man's forelock. Makes perfect sense.

    The Quranic science of drawing straight lines? Sheer deific invention. No one drew a straight line - and especially not the Greeks - until Mohammed told them to.

    And you don't know the basis of sex determination in humans.

    Very edifying. You're done.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  17. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    No straight lines were drawn, though. The guy only did that in his video.
  18. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member


    The Qur'an is not a book of any of the natural sciences or history or historiography or about any fields of study.​
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Yep. And thankyou.
  20. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member


    But facts can be found in it.

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    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  21. Unconcept Registered Senior Member

    After the fall of ancient Egyptian civilization in 30 BC, the use of hieroglyphs declined, and eventually their use died out.
    Maybe there was some kind of oral transmission or written texts in other languages about it, some ancient egyptian information survived like the title of 'pharaoh' for example. A critical history study can shed more light to this.

    All muslims pray in the direction towards Mecca, if you watch the video carefully. The prophet instructed someone to build a mosque in Sana'a, Yemen at a certain named rock, and the praying direction of that mosque should face the summit of Mount Deyn that is 30 KM away, that someone did so. And today we see that the direction of the qiblah extends correctly over the mountain till the Kaaba in Mecca that is 815 KM or 507 Miles away.
    And according to the biography of the prohpet, he never visited Yemen himself.

    Looking back, I don't even know how to align 2 thing 30 KMs apart

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    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Unconcept, are you Intaba on Physics Forums? Some of your arguments are surprisingly similar.
  23. garbonzo Registered Senior Member

    He probably did visit Yemen. Used some bread crumbs to find a straight line.

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