Is trust earned or learned?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by wegs, Aug 13, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    Without going into details, I was hurt by someone I once loved and trusted. Perhaps, one cannot fully love without trust. I'm over the ordeal, but the residue that remains is a significant inability for lack of a better word, to trust again.

    In discussing this with a friend, she said "you need to learn to trust again."
    I replied "isn't trust EARNED?"

    We talked a bit about it and I still came away wondering how to go about "learning" something that should come naturally, no? I think trust needs to be earned...otherwise we would invite a lot of mayhem into our lives, no? But she implied that it is something we must do.

    I was hopeful of getting some objective insight from you here, and I'd be interested in any advice you can give about trust. If you have had trust issues due to being betrayed in the past...how did you ever "learn" to trust again?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,048
    All i know is once trust in others is gone its gone forever. A person can only take so much, and when thats gone its gone.

    You people can think everyone is nice, but its not the case, most are vile and want to destroy others.

    So i would say once trust in others is gone its gone forever.

    People start off with trust in others when young if they have good parents, but it slowly dwindles, and if it goes to far, the trust in others will be gone forever. Trust then will not be learned or earned, as trust will not get any chance.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    Yeah, I'm in the category now of not even wanting to try...the hopeful ''ROI'' just isn't enough to make me want to bother, anymore. :/
    I'm optimistic in every other area in my life, but trust/love is just something I've grown cold/cynical about, I guess.
    Thanks for your input, andy.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,618
    I don't think this is really a question for natural science.

    But surely the answer is it is both earned by the one seeking to be trusted and learned by the one considering whether to trust that person. Objectively, the learning of trust is a series of repeated experiences that lead one to think one can reliably predict the behaviour of the other. And earning it is making sure that one behaves reliably predictable. After a while a degree of trust is given. With inanimate objects and phenomena something similar occurs, but without the "earning " side of the equation. I trust the ski lift cable not to snap, because I've been up on a few of them and nobody I know has come to any harm.

    If I had been on one that snapped, it would take a while before I'd be able to overcome my lack of trust a second time. This might be irrational, in that the stats remain what they are (very safe), but psychologically it would need an effort of will to place rational stats over the horrible memories. I would have to train myself to trust again.

    Is that not what is at work in your case?

    P.S. I wonder too with human psychology if there is a sex difference on these things. I am a man. When I read your post, I felt sure you must be a woman. I wonder why.
     
  8. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,760
    At sometime in their life everyone has been trustworthy and everyone has lied. Everyone has experienced broken trust. Someone may be just as wary of you as you are of them.
     
  9. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,105
    Life is good when you're at a parade and the sun is shining bright. It's so warm and beautiful there's really nothing quite like it, and it makes life worth living. Sometimes the clouds roll in and it rains on your parade, and it sucks, that's just life. Every day isn't always a warm sunny day. If it rains on your parade and you go inside and close the curtains and get mad at the world, and vow to never go to another parade again, you'll miss out on life. You'll be stuck inside, never to experience the beauty, warmth, and joy of another great parade. Isn't that what life is all about, sunny warm days at a parade?

    I think your friend was telling you that you'll be missing out on another warm sunny day parade if you stay inside with the curtains closed.
     
  10. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,048
    No not everyone has done wrong to people, you all assume this but its not true.

    The big difference is that i would not do harm to them, i doubt most people can say the same. You can only speak for yourselves of course.
     
  11. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,784
    Both.

    Bebes was sort of correct in saying that you have to learn to trust yourself. You have to discover your strength and resiliency. You need to gain confidence in your ability to deal with conflicts and setbacks. There isn't a relationship beyond betrayal. We have to realize that our intuitive function is limited. Give people the benefit of the doubt, rather than trying to second guess them, until they give you reason to believe otherwise. You have to accept uncertainty and learn to live with probabilities. But first, you have to know what you want.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    “So we shall let the reader answer this question for himself: who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?
    ― Hunter S. Thompson


    MAN'S SEARCH FOR MEANING: I understood how a man who has nothing left in this world still may know bliss, be it only for a brief moment, in the contemplation of his beloved.
    – Viktor E. Frankl


    It sounds like it’s worth the risk, eh?

    The book was really good.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  12. arauca Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,564
    You learn to trust if it refers to non living objects , I regard to living objects you trust depending on condition of the individuals at the time.
     
  13. Anew Life isn't a question. Banned

    Messages:
    461
    Variance exists. Trust is a principle, some people master trust as an self commitment

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    Oh, I thought it might fit here, as I considered it fitting into the psychology category. Maybe 'free thoughts' would have been better.

    Thank you for this--it really is helpful to look at someone's reasoning. You are applying logic, whereas I tend to apply (only) emotion when making choices that deal with trusting others.

    bolded for emphasis, by me
    I really like that. Yes, only very few people have hurt me...in the grand scheme of life. To avoid situations that I sense 'might' lead to loss or betrayal again...it does seem irrational, when you put it this way. Would I stop driving if I had a car accident? The only caveat to this, is that trusting another person (completely), takes a lot more effort (there's a lot to lose) than trusting you won't get into an accident again, or that the ski lift cable won't snap. You know? But, nonetheless, you prove a very good point...and with logic.

    Frankly, perhaps we learn to not trust along the way. It would seem that one needs to learn how to at least be open to trusting again, thereafter.

    Yes.

    Lucky guess? I don't know.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Perhaps, there is an inherent difference between how men and women solve problems. Men tend to be solution finders, rather quickly. I'll eventually seek a solution, but not before mulling it over for a good long while. Thank you for chiming in here. It's helped a lot. With your type of reasoning skills, do you not dwell on things for long? You just find a solution and move forward?

    You know, you are right. No matter what anyone says, if we look back into our histories long enough, there are people along the way we hurt....or damaged the trust that once existed in some way, albeit a small one. Good point.

    But suppose in the past, you've watched the parades with excited anticipation, and then you get run over by one of the floats? Hmmm? You brush it off, then you decide to watch another parade...the following year...and you get run over again. Eventually, you shy away from parades and the closed curtains seem quite appealing.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I hear you, I do.
    Thanks for your thoughts; you are much calmer in these types of threads than the math ones.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    andy, i know how you feel, but think what is meant by that, is that no one is perfect. we all are works in progress. even if you didn't cause someone immense harm, on purpose, you might have hurt someone if you look back. (even if unintentionally)

    This is an awesome post. I don't have confidence in my ability to deal with conflicts.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    That's it. I tend to 'flee' instead of 'fight.' I need to change the paradigm. Yes, people may hurt us, but to what degree do we let it cause us to shy away from certain aspects life? Excellent points, Trooper.

    the person who stayed on the shore?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    yep...you're right.

    you're welcome, i'm glad you enjoyed it! it may be my favorite read ever. (i need to read it again)

    can you further explain this, arauca?

    You always speak wisely, Anew. Thank you.


    Your advice and insights helped me today...really. I've been this way for too long, and I want it to change. Change starts from within.
    ((Thank you))
     
  15. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,105

    One of my favorite quotes from an old TV Judge (and ex-professional boxing referee) Judge Mills Lane: "It's not how many times you get knocked down that counts, it's how many times you get back up."


    I'm generally a very passive person. I was always the quiet one, and still am. But sometimes you have to fight for what you believe in.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,618
    Far from it. I've had a few experiences where the metaphorical ski-lift cable has snapped on me. And the effort of will not to allow my life to be cramped by an increasing number of resulting no-go areas is very painful and sometimes I don't succeed. But what I do try to do is tell myself not to draw irrational conclusions about the world and people in it, from single experiences that may be one-off. I also try to tell myself to be patient, as it takes time for one's mind to come to terms with unpleasant experiences. Sleep always helps a lot, and so things that promote good sleep are good, such as physical exercise and not too much booze! The worst thing is waking up at 0400, because then everything appears in the worst possible light and the tendency to pointlessly recycle totally unactionable notions is irresistible.
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Love is a separate emotion. Life works out much better when the person you love is someone you trust, and he is worthy of that trust.

    But lots of people go through life loving people whom they know to be untrustworthy. So they keep being betrayed over and over again. This seems to me like a textbook example of a complete lack of self-respect.

    In 1963, my roommate shot my cat. In 1968, my wife ran off with my best friend. Yet I am still able to trust people. I just do a better job of choosing the people I trust.

    Trust isn't something that just happens. Like everything else in life, you have to work at it. It requires judgment.

    You're both right.

    Yes, you have to learn to trust again. You haven't given enough details about the betrayal in question, but in simplified terms it happened for one of three reasons:
    • You didn't do your homework, so you trusted someone who wasn't worthy of your trust.
    • You did your homework, but the other person was a good con artist and duped you into believing that he was trustworthy.
    • Neither of those situations are true. It was just an instance of "shit happens." Except for the occasional Mother Theresa (who is really more of a myth than a real person anyway), we all have our limits and if we're pushed beyond them we'll break. Sometimes the way that breakage is manifested is by betraying someone else's trust. We're all weak, we can all screw up under pressure. Perhaps that person cries himself to sleep every night, understanding what he did, but he's too proud to admit it in the daylight so he pretends that he did it on purpose.
    And yes, trust must be earned. It's foolish to go around trusting people with no reason. But there's a limit to how well you can know someone. At some point you have to trust yourself to have done your due diligence, and you have to accept the fact that, as noted above, sometimes shit happens.

    This goes back to what I said on that other thread: you have to learn to trust yourself. Trust your judgment, be honest about your shortcomings, and if your shortcomings are legion, then find the resources to improve your judgment. But if you just can't trust yourself, then as I also said: get a dog. No one can teach you about trust the way a dog can. Perhaps the most important thing to learn from dogs is that even when the people they trust betray them, they don't give up.

    A dog figures that if he keeps loving you and trusting you, you'll eventually become a better person. And guess what? It works.

    I became older and wiser, I made some better friends, and like many things, I learned to trust by practicing. I also learned to forgive. I was a real asshole so I can't blame the lady for leaving. It was actually considerably more difficult to forgive the friend. But eventually I realized that he loved her and we all do crazy things for love.

    Remember that whoever betrayed you is human, just like you. And just like you, he screws up occasionally. Sometimes it turns out really bad.

    One of the key steps in learning to trust is learning to forgive.

    No, that is absolutely not true. Look at all the Auschwitz survivors who love humanity and are devoting their lives to helping strangers.

    Like I said, get a dog.

    No they're not. They're just weak like the rest of us. Many of them had dreadfully incompetent parents, so when they get out of college they're still children with the morality of a child but an adult's income. Kinda scary. They even get to vote!

    That is just about the exact opposite of what you said above. Sounds like you're a little confused about life.

    Depends on how you define "harm." Making someone feel lousy is very harmful.
     
  18. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,199
    Making someone feel lousy is very harmful. - I agree.
     
  19. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,788
    'Love' is an emotional state for most although love is a word with many meanings and it is not my wish to debate them all here.

    'Trust' is a condition of reasonable expectations, as I interpret it.

    That being said, there are some things that I do not even trust to my loved ones, because my personal expectations are perhaps too great a burden for them. My main expectation of anyone that I am close to is that they will not deceive me or intentionally undertake any activity that would be harmful to me. These are the same expectations that I impose upon myself in my relationships with others.

    Your poignant post reminds me of the day when I was 17 years old and I discovered that the man I loved (and had given my virginity to) had been having sex with another woman who was my friend. I was devastated. I laid on the gravel beach of Atlin Lake and cried for hours. A year or so later, we got back together and had even picked out the wedding bands when a few weeks before the wedding, his co-worker became pregnant with his child.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Some people are fortunate enough to meet the right person the first time out but for many of us, that is not the case. Although you may feel like you will never love or trust again, time is a great healer and like most of us, you will very likely get back on that horse that threw you. We are a social species, for the most part, and if you wish a trustworthy partner, you will seek one. Unfortunately for them, they shall have to stay the course considerably longer to demonstrate that their intentions are good.

    First love is an incredible emotion and betrayal of that love and trust hurts like nothing else ever can, in my experience.
     
  20. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,199
    Wegs
    Scheherazade is a wonderful person. Amazing peacemaking words ....
    "Some people are fortunate enough to meet the right person the first time out but for many of us, that is not the case. Although you may feel like you will never love or trust again, time is a great healer and like most of us, you will very likely get back on that horse that threw you. We are a social species, for the most part, and if you wish a trustworthy partner, you will seek one. Unfortunately for them, they shall have to stay the course considerably longer to demonstrate that their intentions are good.

    First love is an incredible emotion and betrayal of that love and trust hurts like nothing else ever can, in my experience.

    Hugs
     
  21. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    I do like that quote.
    lol...i was just teasin ya

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    bolded by me
    ok. you should be a therapist, if you are not already. this is very good.
    Going with this, I had a lightbulb moment and it was that I finally feel what you're saying. If someone loses my trust, it is that person who loses it, not everyone thereafter that I shall meet. Plus, I'm not accepting of bad benaviors like I once was...and that helps me rid my life of toxic people instead of letting them linger, and then I end up hurt in the end, when I should have cut the tie sooner. I finally have boundaries, one could say, healthy ones. Progress!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Thank you for sharing and help me.

    agreed

    very true fraggle. i've had to look at myself over the years, and assess why i attract what i have. and i have worked hard to get out of that paradigm. you are 100% right, though.

    oh, i'm sorry to hear this...even though it's many moons ago. i LOVE what you say....''I just do a better job of choosing the people I trust.'
    It is a choice. People don't just fly into our lives, unannounced. We invite them in. I'm grateful when you decide to drop in with your advice.
    i never looked at it that way, but i will now

    It was an abusive relationship...and it was truly horrible. Even when it was over, it wasn't over. They don't let it be over. It took a long time to get over. That's all I'll say about that.

    You know, I didn't do my homework. Or I did, and just chose to overlook the warning signs. It is hard to admit that I chose to stay in something so horrible. But, I grew...and now the only thing left is to learn how to trust again...in a healthy way. You are so right, fraggle.

    I feel misty eyed now. Ugh. Thank you for your thoughts...it does mean a lot.

    aw, well glad you learned a lot...pain is often a great teacher. we never forget the lesson.

    very true


    yeah

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    You know, I really enjoy your writings. They always feel like a story. Not just a reply to me...lol It is comforting to know that I'm not alone. We have all been through betrayals here, it's interesting to me. You're right...your final sentence there. Someone will have to stay the course, to help me trust. I feel sorry for the guy.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    were you ever betrayed?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  22. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,199
    How many threads do you want?
     
  23. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    I'm so sorry, I didn't know.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page