Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by ColdFusion, Jan 13, 2003.
And cave divers. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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And cost a hell lot of money!!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Anyway thanks for the info very much Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I'd have to dissagree, in junior high we did a very simple experiment of electrolisis (you know, breakin down water into its components) and all we used was 9v battery (of course there wasn't much water to begin with so maybe that has something to dou with it...)
(we also accelarated the rustin' process [addin oxigen] we did it to a paper clip Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!)
but i maybe we thought we did electrolisis and did something else, but i'm pretty sure we got it right. if anybody can prove me wrong, you are welcome to do so....
:bugeye: are you sure about that?
H2O + ??? ---> CO2 + ???
let's see. we surely need C, but probably not 2C or C2. offcourse: it is possible: but you probably want the most logical molecules:
H2O + CO(-) + O2 ---> CO2 + H2O2(-)
All these molecules are pretty normal in our environment.
but again: there are many-many possibilities.
Why do you want to know this?
Water brakes down in high temperature (2000 Deg. C):
H<sub>2</sub>O -> 2H<sub>2(g)</sub> + O<sub>2(g)</sub>
So with some physics you can also find out how much electricity it takes to break down water into its components (I'm not sure how to do it, but I'm pretty sure you can. Something to do with energy and temperature, blah blah blah)
Water also reacts with non-metallic elements releasing oxygen. For example:
2F<sub>2</sub> + 2H<sub>2</sub>O = 4HF + O<sub>2</sub>
Of course, you cannot breathe pure oxygen, as it has allready been mentioned. You have to mix it up with various gases to create the air you breathe.
The composition of air in the atmospheric pressure we're used to is 78.08% N, 20.95% O, 0.93% Ar, 0.03% CO<sub>2</sub> and small amounts of other gases like Ne, He, Kr, Xe, CH<sub>4</sub>, H<sub>2</sub>O vapor and others. This changes as pressure increses (or decreases).
I've posted that in an other thread so if you're interested have a look at this:
So oxygene can be made easy... But then to make air, N is much more important. And because N isn't found in water then we can't make air from water. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
H2O + CO + O2 ---> CO2 + H2O2
must indeed be ofcourse:
H2O + CO -> CO2 + H2
If I had taken a little moment I would have seen that I could scrap O2 from both sides.
I am banging my head against my monitor right now.
ok, sorry for this post, but I had to mention my own "stupidness" (if that's an existing word)
Strangely enough, some people have tried diving with hydrox -- a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. It's fine biologically, but has a couple of serious drawbacks -- for most mixtures, it's highly explosive, and hydrogen generally conducts heat away from the diver so rapidly that he goes hypothermic.
If you could electrolyze the water, and discard most of the oxygen so that you obtain a hydrogen-oxygen mixture, one could breath it for a while -- until they blow themselves to smithereens or freeze to death.
The other approach is to bring your own supply of inert gas, like helium or nitrogen, and use the water as a reservoir of oxygen. This is a rebreather. Current rebreathers utilize a bottle of oxygen and a bottle of inert gas (most often with some percent of oxygen premixed for safety in case the oxygen bottle fails). As the person breaths, he extracts oxygen from the breathing loop and expires water and carbon dioxide. The rebreather chemically removes the carbon dioxide, lets any condensed water leave the loop, and adds oxygen as necessary to maintain a healthy PPO2.
Instead of carrying around an oxygen tank, you could carry around an electrolyzer, pulling the oxygen from the water as you need it. You'll need a large energy source, though. You're better off carrying around a bottle of oxygen (which can be thought of as work already done) than carrying around a battery (with energy to do work to obtain oxygen).
It may eventually be possible to use some sort of membrane which allows carbon dioxide to pass from the breathing bag to the water, and dissolved oxygen to pass from the water to breathing bag. This would be the best solution, period, for diving apparatus. The problem is that the membrane would have to be ENORMOUS to be able to pull enough dissolved oxygen from the water to support a human being. We humans are warm blooded and require a large amount of power -- about 100 watts.
Well I'll just wait for the batteries to become smaller and more powerfull then. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Don't you think that batteries compared to other technology are very underdeveloped? Just a thought Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Please don't cross post the same things to different forums. It is not considered good netiquette here.
When i found out that the topics about chemistry have to be posted in the Physics & Math forums I tryed to delete the other one but I couldn't (for some strange reason Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! )
I linked it here so that the other post could 'die out'.
I realy tryed to delete the other one, there weren't any posts in it so I don't know why I couldn't.
Sorry about that.
only mods can delete threads
Separate names with a comma.