is there evidence for alien abductions etc.?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by duendy, Nov 2, 2005.

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1. shaman_Registered Senior Member

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Duendy it is good to see you discussing the subject of the thread.

You have referred to this same documentary many times now. Some details would help the discussion along.

3. OphioliteValued Senior Member

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Do you also speak English?

5. awdsciRegistered Member

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Hello to all, I would like to suggest that anyone interested in this discussion should read the all the posts (quite a lot Im afraid ) at the start of this section ,without prejudice ,but with their discriminatory senses set to maximum. There are also many,many sites on the net which offer INTELLIGENT reasoning regarding the subject .I appeal to all who have opinions about UFOs ,abductions , ET ,disclosure etc.,to make themselves fully aware of the existing material to enable a balanced view to be aired.
Thanks.
Awdsci.

7. OphioliteValued Senior Member

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This is sound advice awdsci, inspired by noble sentiment, yet it is advice which will largely go ignored for the following reasons:

a) To become fully aware of the existing material on the subject would take a lifetime. Amongst other things it would require interviewing a significant number of alleged abductees after acquiring degrees in medicine, biology and one of the hard sciences.
b) If we take fully to be hyperbole, then it would still require many days of careful reading to absorb the content of even some of the internet sites on the subject. Few people will take up the time.
c) Many who are posting here have already studied this material in at least a cursory fashion and reached the conclusion abductions are false. A majority of these would fail to notice convincing new evidence if it jumped up and bit them.
d) Others, attracted by novelty, or naturally reactionary, believe in abductions. Facts are the last thing they wish to consider.
e) Most of the remainder are just looking for a good argument.

But I applaud and support your appeal. I just don't see much chance of the majority paying it any heed.

8. GustavBannedBanned

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i like to modify that and present it
pardon the liberties, ophiolite

f) Many who are posting here have already studied this material in at least a cursory fashion and reached the conclusion that et seem quite plausible. A majority of these would notice convincing new evidence that disproves the previously held assumptions.

case in point was when i went around this board couple of years ago, touting the belgian flap as a highly probable et incident. the evidence, very cursorily examined, indicated a good likelihood.

yet i came across this a couple of weeks ago. i was mortified and embarrassed. (i yet have to examine the latest report in depth)

such are the dangers of jumping into conclusions, tentative or otherwise, with just material found on the net. if anyone is serious about this shit, i recommend an actual field investigation...go to fucking france!

9. awdsciRegistered Member

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Thanks Ophiolite,
Whilst I agree with most of your remarks ,I cant just leave people who may be genuinely interested out in the cold . This may sound pompous and silly but I maintain that there IS a subject worthy of study by everybody, even if only a small percentage of the "evidence " has any validity. The fact that governments seem to ignore evidence from their own military sources and personnel, speaks volumes to me. If we are on the verge of the most sensational episode in human history then people should be encouraged to demand the facts.

Bye for now,Awdsci

10. Mr AnonymousGuest

Have to say though, thoroughly in agreement with you here, but isn't this really the point about why people should maintain a healthy degree a scepticism regarding issues the subject raises purely because, if there is anything at all behind it, flapping around and arguing the b'jesus about silly bugger stuff that can't be happening in the first place serves only to a distract attention away from issues which might actually prove germane and b constrain everyone associated with the business as all being absolute adherents to all the rest of the stuff the subject on the whole generally seems to concern itself with.

The reams and reams of argument concerning alien abduction, for example, seems to me somewhat besides the point if one can't establish first and foremost that an object conforming to UFO description and behaviour can actually exist in the first place - it's like everyone been reading the same book and everyone decided to skip Chapter's One, Two, Three, Four, Five and Six and just skip to the end and forget about the beginning and middle like its all been sorted and established as absolute fact.

Gustav's point is an excellent one, and the report concerning the facts of the Belgium UFO Flap, good, concise reading. Very typical in my experience - when one actually goes into these things and does a little background research, turns out indeed the story being presented actually isn't the clear cut, certain "fact" people insist on making it out to be.

And sloppy conclusions, wishful thinking and just plain, dumb stupidity proffered as fact actually do matter - they have a deeply negative effect on subject as a whole. Yet time and time again, these spurious claims for alien this and extraterrestrial that become touted by those who simply know extraterrestrials are real as "evidence" of that belief.

It strikes me all ET Believers care about is their belief, the only significance UFO's have for most of them is that they are presumed to facilitate the presence of Extraterrestrials here in the neighbourhood of Earth.

Without proof, absolute and certain that such things as UFO's can actually exist, the question is always going to remain "what Aliens?"

11. awdsciRegistered Member

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Hello anon, I thank you for the applause ,but its actually caused some embarrassment. I bent over to take a bow and being of some age, there was an escape of bodily gases with a decibel rating of 52 db. Please dont make me laugh again.
Regarding your comments , I agree that scepticism is required but would suggest that by being open to all types of information , no data is left unanalysed. I feel this type of approach , together with discrimination ,tends to provide a greater degree of what may be called "High Strangeness " data.
Of course this type of analytical procedure is already in use in certain scientific disciplines ,but requires a consistent approach to provide useful data. Since no individual effort could be expected to maintain such a comprehensive database of information ,many groups have formed to attempt the task. However, the most detailed and important data is held by government agencies , who are extremely loathe to let information of this sensitivity into the public domain. From details distributed on the internet,it is apparent that the data recovered using the FOI Act is only the tip of the iceberg.
Your point regarding peoples perception of the subject, the  chapter skipping , again highlights the lack of insight of many people . If this subject has any importance at all ,then it must be brought out into the light of day , to be discussed openly .
I shall return later,

Awdsci

12. awdsciRegistered Member

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Anon,

Had to return as Id missed out my response to Gustavs debunking info on the  Belgian Triangle .

Have read a few accounts of this episode ,in various forms ,also watched a TV documentary , with some very interesting contributions from Belgian military personnel which included radar and visual sightings.
My own view , for what its worth ,is that this series of sightings represents a distinctively authentic set of characteristics which tend to define its differences from previously described similar events.

I would like to point out that various national security organisations have an interest in this type of incident ,as it may affect public morale, etc.
I am quite convinced , by the style of the excerpt, that this is an example of their work. It ignores all the official Belgian Air Force statements ,radar reports, multple-witness sightings and other photographs to concentrate on a single reproduction by a student. Not very convincing.

Awdsci.

13. GustavBannedBanned

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It ignores all the official Belgian Air Force statements ,radar reports, multple-witness sightings and other photographs to concentrate on a single reproduction by a student. Not very convincing.

yep. i noticed that too. the new report indicated just one f-15 whereas the military claimed to have scrambled two. perhaps i am too eager to be balanced. lemme dig up the thread

ahh, here

shall we look into it?
afresh?

Last edited: Nov 29, 2005

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15. Deep_MindQuestRegistered Member

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Scripture tells us that it will happen again.
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"But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Matthew 24: 37. "They will mingle with the seed of men." Daniel 2: 43.
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"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and
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the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers (Satans) of the heaven will be shaken." Luke 21: 25-26.
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TOOK WIVES=ABDUCTED
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The strange events recorded in Genesis 6 were clearly understood by the ancient rabbinical sources, as well as the Septuagint translators, as referring to fallen angels. They were engaged in creating angel-human hybrid offspring known as the "Nephalim."
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Even the word used in Genesis 6 for "took [wives]" means "capture, seize, to be taken away, be removed, to be taken out of", which is eerily similar to the abduction phenomenon of our time. Sexual acts and experimentation are also commonly reported among abductees.
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These bizarre events are also echoed in the legends and myths of every ancient culture upon the earth: the ancient Greeks, the Egyptians, the Hindus, the South Sea Islanders, the American Indians, and virtually all the others. Even the early church fathers wrote and believed this doctrine.
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I believe that II Thessalonians 2 refers to the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit that holds the full force of evil back. If indeed that the appointed time has come, and is nearing a point of fullness, then it is not hard to understand what is really happening in the spiritual realm today.

16. phlogisticianBannedBanned

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"The following is courtesy of Charisma Magazine; April 2001 issue pg. 52"

The April 1st story, perhaps? ;-)

"In October, 1996, we formed CE 4 Research Group, Inc. as a legal entity"

For tax reasons, I presume?

17. awdsciRegistered Member

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Gustav, I dont want to dampen your enthusiasm but I`m quite sure that this particular event has been researched thoroughly by local groups and individuals over here. Have you thought of joining a local UFO group ?
An investigation of this type requires the researcher to be in close proximity to both the area and the witnesses , "on the ground " so to speak .
I took your link and was pleasantly surprised by the information available and the depth of discussion at that time . I hope that others will also gain more insight into the type of background material which has so intrigued ordinary people .

Regards ,Awdsci

18. SkinWalkerArchaeology / AnthropologyModerator

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There is no evidence for a race of "nephilim" to have existed. Peddle your nonsense somewhere else.

Drive-by posters that are interested only in advertising their sites are the worst. You could at least have the common courtesy to respond to the things that others have been discussing then slip your website in, but to blatantly copy/paste a bunch of junk and not say one original word is rude.

Besides, the website is full of TESTIMONIALS. No kidding. That's all you ever get with this sort of thing. People LIE! They MISUNDERSTAND events! Some HALLUCINATE! Some are DELUDED! But most likely, all those people are ONE PERSON: the person who created the website and invented the testimonials.

Think about it. One group claims aliens are out to get us and they're enemies; another group says they want us to save our planet; yet another claims they are angels from some god; one says they are demons; now this guy claims they are ancient "giants" that roamed the planet & built pyramids all over the world in spite of clear evidence to the contrary; other proponents of space-aliens claim other "facts" that they "know" from testimonials.

But when you look at them all together, the individual groups often contradict one-another. The individual claims about space-aliens are often contradictory and inconsistent. Thank goodness the movie industry came along and helped standardize it for us all to some degree.

But this guy wants us to believe that god has something to do with it now?

Last edited: Nov 30, 2005
19. Mr AnonymousGuest

Mmmmm, that the Belgian Airforce scrambled to intercept and ended up chasing an unidentified radar return travelling through Belgian airspace I have not the slightest doubt, though unless I'm personally seeing and can verify that what I'm personally seeing is actually the original tracking data, I'm of the sort of inclination to take with a pinch of salt the testimony of ex- Military Personal going on record regarding these matters - according to such sources, the aliens have landed, done deals with Presidents, roam around Groom Lake as if they own the place...

There's a list of not terribly plausible "information" basically telling UFO Conspiracy nuts exactly what they want to hear exactly how they want to hear it.

But with regards to the case in question, no. I've no doubt something did indeed pull a peek-a-boo where it shouldn't have - with the number of USAF Bases in the vicinity though I find the notion that ET alone can be the only possible means of accounting for the incident somewhat of a reach.

20. GustavBannedBanned

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i have additional info that just might debunk way better than the marc hallet link i provided. after i noticed the f-16 discrepancy, i googled hallet and found out he was an ex adamski follower tho i cant find the link anymore.

perhaps i should have some fun first before posting it

question

should i be skeptical about skeptic sites that have stuff like this..........

21. phlogisticianBannedBanned

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You mean, like this episode;

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june99/marines_2-3.html

If jet jockeys have such low regard for human safety, that they'd pull of such a stupid stunt and end up killing people, I've no doubt that they'd take a detour over a small country, and yank their chain.

22. GustavBannedBanned

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or should i be skeptical about skeptics that offer such lazy explanations as the one above?

23. awdsciRegistered Member

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Hmmm, seems a bit off-topic to me . Your allusion to the possible cause of the Belgian sighting as a hot-rodding pilot seems to ignore the eyewitness statements of appearance ,height.colour, silence and shape. Not to mention the radar returns , extreme acceleration and manoeuvrability.
Awdsci