Is There A Universal Now?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Cyperium, Jun 14, 2022.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Why take that as a given?

    Can you disprove the claim that some things happen instantly?
    Yes, because photons have zero rest mass.
    Photons don't have opinions.
    Travelling towards the Earth at the speed of light, like origin said.
    The main problem is that space will be expanding faster than the light can travel through it. Obstacles are a separate issue.
    The "stretching out" is a cosmological red shift. We already see that in the cosmic microwave background radiation and also in the red shifting of light from distant galaxies.
    That kind of response is common but not quite right. It tries to extrapolate from what you would see if you travelled at a speed very close to the speed of light to what would happen at the speed of light. But the associated maths breaks down at the speed of light, so that step that goes from 99.999999% of the speed of light to 100% of the speed of light is not truly applicable.

    Basically, a lot of physicists sort of fudge this when they're trying to communicate this science in popular forums. To understand why you can't really make the intuitive leap that is being made in the pop-science description requires that you actually study relativity, with the maths.

    Photons don't experience.
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    I keep telling you that introducing an observer does not address the question. You just refuse to look !
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Do you mean the question of "Is there a universal now?"

    You have given me no reason to believe that there is such a thing, so far. I'm willing to look at any argument you can bring in support of your claim. But so far, the only ones you have brought all implicitly take the point of view of some observer or other - i.e. you assume a frame of reference, even without realising that's what you're doing.

    I've tried to teach you something about relativity and what that theory has to say about time. Aren't you interested in what the science says? If you aren't, then why are you posting in the "Physics and Math" subforum? Take it to Philosophy, maybe.
    Mike_Fontenot likes this.
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  7. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

    It's one of those "if" scenarios. IF light was conscious, then it supposdedly wouldn't internally experience change. Albeit externally, EM waves are travelling distances, oscillating, etc to a receiver of information (like a human) that can produce perceptual representations from the latter and infer abstract affairs.

    Even if a photon did manifest to itself as something (a primitive experience), there's no way to probe or test for that. As well as no science for explaining such phenomenal (intrinsic) properties, mapping them to the extrinsic characteristics of matter that physics deals with, and having a system for predicting what specific nature that the "manifesting" would assume with respect to a gamut of different circumstances/relationships.

    The photon would also lack the complexity of a memory-based cognitive apparatus for verifying even to itself that it was appearing or feeling as _X_ qualitative property. So still equivalent to the "not even nothingness" of death or non-consciousness, despite a "somethingness" being present (in this purely hypothetical or speculative context).
  8. JJM Registered Senior Member

    • Please don't post nonsensical pseudoscience to our Science sections.
    is there a universal now? YES. exactingly........ the bane and the blessing of advanced life forms is instantaneity. Nature imposes the time variable in distance, so the clossest we will ever get to the Now of the universe is the capacity of our transportation devices. FTL is only a beginning? As for the Natural, Now is everywhere Now.
  9. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Gee, thanks for clearing that up for everyone.
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Moderator note: JJM has been warned for posting nonsense to the Science forums, again.

    Two other posters have managed to get themselves permabanned for this sort of behaviour in the past week. Is JJM looking to join them?
    Kristoffer likes this.
  11. BdS Registered Senior Member

  12. BdS Registered Senior Member

    Did any of them tell you to fuk urself? Any time you ready, address me directly... f-ing unt...
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Like I said, they managed to get themselves permanently banned, so I haven't heard from them.

    It sounds like you're a bit upset. Maybe you should back off with the foul language.

    Do you have some kind of complaint or issue you'd like to discuss?
  14. Contemplation Registered Senior Member

    • Please do not post pseudoscience in our Science sections.
    I believe Andromeda only experienced the same universal now that we experienced for only one single instance. You could think of our galaxy as its own Holographic Universe, with every moment already occurred from its central supermassive black holes frame of reference. Then in about a thousand years, someone turns on a Time Machine tasked with recreating the entire evolution of the planet Earth all throughout time at once. It then branches off into another galaxy in a four dimensional quilted multiverse, spawning another galaxy.

    This occurred multiple times, until it created a more massive galaxy heading towards us at a little over a third of the speed of light. It will crash into us in about four and a half billion years, utterly destroying all forms of intelligent life.

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