Is there a physical explanation for pendulum phenomena

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Hermann, Nov 28, 2022.

  1. Hermann Registered Senior Member

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    At - https://seekreality.com/pendulum/ - is shown a pendulum procedure with very strange movements, like quick reversing of a circular movement or quick stopping of any movement. Such movements could perhaps be simulated with a magnetic pendulum and rotating magnetic fields. But this was certainly not the case. If scientists would be interested to investigate such strange behaviour, Carol Morgan would certainly agree to special experiments. But science seems not to be interested, why? Perhaps by the fear of getting no results?
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    More likely because it is likely to be yet more tedious bullshit from some charlatan, that would only send them on a wild goose chase.

    It's always the same with such people. They never let the demonstration of supposed special properties be exposed to full examination, and the demonstration can never be replicated by other experimenters.
     
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  5. Hermann Registered Senior Member

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    exchemist you are wrong! You made it too easy for you by rejecting everything, which does not fit to your fixed materialistic worldview!
    The experiment shown in that movie is a real proof for afterlife! It requires two mentally close persons - one here, which was the mother Carol and her son Mikey in the afterlife. Please watch the movie again and check, whether you are able to achieve similar movements of the pendulum, even by implementing wildest hand movements. Please say just yes or no! In case of yes, please provide a movie for the forum.
    If science would be interested in such an experiment, it could be done by having Carol in a well prepared Faraday cage fitted with all kind of sensing equipment. The experiment should be watched by specialists and be reported in a proofread scientific journal. Sufficient financial support would be also required.
     
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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Again? I didn't watch it the first time. Any charlatan can make a movie purporting to show something or other. YouTube is full of this kind of crap.

    Movies are not a good basis for scientific investigation. If you want it investigated, you put up the money. Me, I wasn't born yesterday.

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  8. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Holding a pendulum in your hand, using dowsing rods or playing with an ouji board it's all the same. There is no magic or supernatural stuff, it is just your subconscious moving your hands.
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    And yet no screaming headlines
    There is your out
    No effort on your part for a few magic millions

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  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Of course it would.

    I'm happy to supply the financial support. In good faith, I will put up the Golden Gate Bridge - which I own - as collateral.
     
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  11. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    "Many people have found they can use a pendulum for afterlife communication. You will hold the pendulum over a circle chart with letters the outer edges. The person in spirit will influence you so the pendulum points to letters to spell out messages."​

    Oh, I see, now. The planchette of a Ouija board is replaced by a weight suspended on a string? Thereby nicely eliminating the drawback of even being able to feel other participants deliberately or self-deceptively moving a heart-shaped box (Kurt Cobain allusion intended).

    _
     
  12. Hermann Registered Senior Member

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    Origin mentioned: „There is no magic or supernatural stuff, it is just your subconscious, moving your hands.“
    No matter who or what is moving the hands - an exact copy of the hand movement should lead to exactly the same movement of the pendulum. But this cannot be shown. Therefore the demonstration in the movie can be regarded as a proof for afterlife interaction, considering also the dialog between Mother and Son.

    All other replies were just polemics and not worth to be answered. It is astonishing, that many materialists can be more fanatic than religious people.
     
  13. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Because science addressed this back in the 19th-century and several times since. Even some classrooms use the faulty inference to illustrate a distinction between science and pseudoscience.

    The problem is that -- similar to a flat-Earth believer taking a Blue Origin tourist trip into space and still denying the obvious, you folks won't abandon the deliberate cons or involuntary self-deceptions plaguing spiritualism practices (no matter what). Perhaps because you've invested in it for so long that abandoning such would mean admitting countless hours lost on folly, or something akin to ripping out or losing half your identity.

    Ideomotor phenomenon
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_phenomenon

    The term Ideomotor was first used in a scientific paper discussing the means through which these spiritualistic phenomena produced effect, by William Benjamin Carpenter in 1852...

    [...] Scientific tests by the English scientist Michael Faraday, Manchester surgeon James Braid, the French chemist Michel Eugène Chevreul, and the American psychologists William James and Ray Hyman have demonstrated that many phenomena attributed to spiritual or paranormal forces, or to mysterious "energies", are actually due to ideomotor action.

    Furthermore, these tests demonstrate that "honest, intelligent people can unconsciously engage in muscular activity that is consistent with their expectations". They also show that suggestions that can guide behavior can be given by subtle clues (Hyman 1977).

    [...] A simple experiment to demonstrate the ideomotor effect is to allow a hand-held pendulum to hover over a sheet of paper. The paper has words such as "yes", "no", and "maybe" printed on it. Small movements in the hand, in response to questions, can cause the pendulum to move towards the words on the paper.

    This technique has been used for experiments in extrasensory perception, lie detection, and ouija boards. This type of experiment was used by Kreskin and has also been used by illusionists such as Derren Brown.

    A 2019 study of automatic pendulum movements using a motion capture system showed that pendulum effect is produced when the fingers holding the pendulum generate an oscillating frequency close to the resonant frequency of the pendulum. At an appropriate frequency, very small driving movements of the arm are sufficient to produce relatively large pendulum motion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
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  14. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    It is proof for you because you want to believe it, which is fine, but don't expect me to buy into this BS.
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Professeur Tournesol (Professor Calculus in the English version)

    This French Wiki entry is quite interesting on the characters that inspired Hergé's character: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professeur_Tournesol

    He seems to be a blend of a couple of submariners: an Irishman called Holland and a Swiss called Piccard.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    How do you come to this conclusion? What makes you think it's proof of anything except subconscious suggestion of hand movement?
     
  17. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    There is absolutely a physical explanation!
    If you watch her hands you can see that she is manipulating the movement of the pendulum. Her muscles twitch differently, and quite clearly so, depending on the motion she wants. If she's trying to hide such deliberate manipulation then she's not very good at it. She even starts moving her entire hand to begin some of the oscillations.

    Now, if you're trying to say that this video is not of someone (deliberately) manipulating the oscillation of the pendulum, and you're wondering whether there is therefore some other physical explanation: no, there isn't. It IS deliberate manipulation, because not even the lady would be unaware of what she is doing.
     
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  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I've now watched it and - you're right! It is blatantly obvious she is moving her hand in order to make the pendulum move.

    This is pathetic.
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I'm very skeptical. Can you give examples of the type of messages produced and to what practical use these messages can be used?

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  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    CC is quoting. As indicated by the, er, quotations marks and different text colour.

    His own scepticism is made explicit in the text beneath that passage, which you have not quoted.
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    My quote is within those quotation marks

    I don't see any colour text

    His own scepticism is made explicit - to me not more than a raise eyebrows

    I'm distracted by all the activities involving getting me mobile from a left hip replacement required from my motorscooter bingle with a small car

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  22. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, I forgot the color colour blindness. Though I wasn't concerned with explanations of what was going on, anyway.

    BTW, thanks for indirectly triggering or inspiring a signature change. I might have negligently kept that old one down there forever.
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Not that colour blind

    This is a screenshot (which I forgot to post)


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    Anyway as I mentioned I have a few more issues needing my attention

    Cheers

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