Is the planet "broken" and did that cause the evolution of predation?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Wexler, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. Wexler Gadfly Registered Senior Member

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    Question for the board: is it possible that because the planet is “broken” (the collision that gave the Earth its iron core that spins, the moon, the tilt, the wobble, not to mention the tectonics, the inconsistent position of the landmasses, the extreme climate change…oh and a mediocre sun) life on this planet evolved the need for predation?

    If the planet itself was a uniform, stable and nurturing environment with equal distribution of resources life would have evolved differently...and thus no predatorial behavior...and that while evolution might be consistent for life through the universe, predatorial behavior is not?

    Thanks!
     
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  3. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    If there is a ready source of energy life will utilize it. That means predators are inevitable. Your comment about a broken planet and predators seems to indicate thàt you think that predatation is somehow wrong or against the natural order. Putting moral judgements on natural phenomena rarely yields anything useful. By the way this "broken planet" is the only planet we know of that is not hostile to life. Seems like it is the opposite of broken!
     
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Where there are two or more species of anything you can bet that there will be predation. Earth is not broken as Origin has said so I don't understand how you came up with that.
     
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  7. Wexler Gadfly Registered Senior Member

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    Exactly...it's the only one we know of...it's simply a matter of time, technology and math until we find something to compare to.

    Just as the Earth was the center of the universe...then it wasn't...just as the Milky Way was everything...and then it wasn't...just as the atom was uncuttable...and then it wasn't...just as the Higgs was the smallest...until it wasn't...

    Earth isn't broken? A molten core we do not understand, pole flips with distinct regularity, a wobble, a spin, tectonics, unstable land masses, extreme climate changes...a mediocre energy source...I could keep going...

    From the start, the garbage bags were under attack...then the first cells, under attack, multicellular life, under attack, advanced life forms, under attack...but there is evidence of other life forms on this planet that are not cannibals...that predator and prey are not part of the evolutionary equation...thus it must be considered that life (assuming there is life somewhere else in the Universe) does not necessarily have to evolve with predation pushing advancement.
     
  8. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Of course not. Compared to what. How is the earth "suppose" to be??
    Is the core not 'suppose' to be molten? If we understood it to a deeper level would it then be 'OK' that it was molten.
    Are the poles not 'suppose' to flip?
    Is the earth not 'suppose' to wobble and spin.
    So the land masses aren't 'suppose' to move? The climate isn't 'suppose' to vary?
    The sun is 'suppose' to be larger and hotter?
    More of your judgments on how the earth should be would not make this whole thread any less strange.

    The only life that does not consume other life that I know of are plants and some thermophile bacteria.

    Life seizes opportunities. I think it is safe to say that there will always be predators and parasites in any environment.
     
  9. Wexler Gadfly Registered Senior Member

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    114

    The point of all those characteristics is that our science is so "young" we have no idea if a core "should" be molten, if poles "should" flip, if planets "should" wobble and spin...etc.

    We only have one example to compare against - Earth...out of 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible habitable planets in the universe...and trillions of suns...


    Sorry, but you just contradicted yourself, and in a way proving the point of the original question:

    and...

    You are making the assumption of only the behaviors of eukaryotic organisms, which does not encompass all "life".


    "All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have.” - Einstein
     
  10. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    What ever.....

    "Boy my nuts itch!" - Einstein. Well, I assume he said that a few times in his life.
     
  11. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, and Humanity would have descended from a single caucasian male and a single caucasian female...
     
  12. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Earth is very hostile to life.

    .
     
  13. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Not compared to every other planet or moon we have discovered. So I guess it is a matter of context.
     
  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    You said Earth is not hostile to life & I point out that it is. You seem to agree yet must qualify it.
    .
     
  15. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    What is your point? I really do not understand what you are talking about. This is the only planet that appears able to sustain life out of 1800 or so planet that have been discovered. There has been life on earth for about 3.5 billion years so I would say this is incredibly hospitable to life.

    What do you mean I am qualify the statement? Because I compared the earth to the other planets? For you to say the earth is hostile you must also be comparing that to something, right?
     
  16. Wexler Gadfly Registered Senior Member

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    Context as in 99% of all life forms have become extinct in the past 600,000,000 years?

    Doesn't seem so hospitable when you put it into that context.

    Now consider my earlier point that there are 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible habitable planets in the universe...
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    We have half a dozen other plants and moons of similar size here near Sol to compare it to.
    ?? Uh - right. The Earth wasn't "broken" even when we thought it was the center of the Universe. We just didn't understand how the universe worked yet. Fortunately we know more now.
    Nope. No more so than any other planet in the solar system is broken.
    All quite natural.
    Life implies predation. It was likely present from very, very early on in the evolution of life on Earth. Indeed, there is a well-supported theory that mitochondria, a critical component of human cells, resulted in a failed attempt of an early cell to eat another.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Closer to 99.99999%.
    The goal of evolution is not to prolong the existence of species. Indeed, one of its goals is to replace less-adapted organisms with better adapted organisms. (Which you should be grateful for - you wouldn't be here if everything else vying for our ancestor's ecological niche hadn't gotten out of the way.)
    Right . . . .
     
  19. Wexler Gadfly Registered Senior Member

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    We just didn't understand, as in prior to October 6, 1923 all of humanity, including and especially the field of science, thought differently because of technology. One man thought, and proved, differently.

    As shown above, not all "Life" implies predation.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Most of it does. Almost all eukaryotic cells contain mitochondria.
     
  21. Wexler Gadfly Registered Senior Member

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    Most, but not all...and the great oxidation event of the early oceans caused a great dying in and of itself.

    There are a number of theories of how the mitochondria got inside that first cell...

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141215-seven-things-predators-gave-us
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right. So did meteor impacts, evolution, and ordinary old age. None of those indicates anything "broken" with a system.
     
  23. Wexler Gadfly Registered Senior Member

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    Hmmm, ok, fair point I guess, but really, how about these?

    1End-Ordovician, 443 million years ago.
    This coincides with very rapid glaciation; sea level fell by more than 100 metres, devastating shallow marine ecosystems; less than a million years later, there was a second wave of extinctions as ice melted, sea level rose rapidly, and oceans became oxygen-depleted.

    2Late Devonian, c 360 million years ago.
    A messy prolonged event, again hitting life in shallow seas very hard, and an extinction that was probably due to climate change.

    3Permian-Triassic mass extinction, c 250 million years ago.
    The greatest of all, ‘The Great Dying’ of more than 95% of species, is strongly linked with massive volcanic eruptions in Siberia that caused, among other effects, a brief savage episode of global warming.

    4Triassic-Jurassic mass extinction, c 200 million years ago.
    This has been linked with another huge outburst of volcanism.

    So lets review: rapid glaciation, ice melting oceans became oygen-depleted, climate change, massive volcanic eruptions, global warming and volcanism...


    Nothing "broken" about that system, eh?
     

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