Is the god of Christ the god of Jews?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Avatar, Mar 26, 2007.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know the Torah was not re-written after Antiochus destroyed the Jewish books?

    And how did the Jews mellow out their God?

    I think admirer might be a misnomer. Whats the antonym for that word?

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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    You can get kosher-style food in many places. Matzoh ball soup, gefilte fish, knishes, lox and bagels, challah bread, etc. That's just the cuisine of the Jewish community. But Orthodox people insist on genuine kosher food, which was already described earlier. That's not so easy to come by because absolutely no one else has any reason to order it. Kosher-style food tastes the same and in fact may be literally identical in substance but lacking the ritual.
    There are about seventy times as many Indians on this planet as Jews, so naturally there are a lot more Indian restaurants. Indian food is also far more popular among non-Indians than kosher-style food is among Gentiles.

    And I doubt very much that you can find a Jewish-style restaurant in the middle of Saudi Arabia.

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    Yes. To accept for the sake of argument the doubtful hypothesis that Jesus was real, his flock was the Jewish community, not the Romans or any other Goyim. He was a rabbi in the strict sense of the word: a teacher. He wanted the Jews to break with their old traditions. It's ironic that the one ethnic group in which Jesus's teachings have not been widely accepted is the Jews.
    Yeah, but Jesus's point was that his/their god had turned over a new leaf. God wanted to see less punishment and more forgiveness in the world, starting, admirably, with himself.
    Many non-Christian scholars of religion suggest that what is known as Christianity should really be called "Paulism." They say that of all the Apostles, Paul strays farthest from Jesus's message. He was, after all, a complete wack job. Didn't he get knocked off his horse by a bolt of lightning or something? Today if that happened to somebody he'd be required to undergo a psychiatric examination before being allowed to occupy a position of authority.

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    Conservative and especially Reform Jews just don't fixate on the pillar-of-salt stuff. I think they tacitly assume that their god went to an anger management class just as Jesus (allegedly) tried to explain to them in the lessons that were (allegedly) collected in the New Testament. They aren't as concerned with the Covenant, as shown by their much greater willingness to intermarry, acculturate, ignore the rituals, and tolerate secularism in their community, all of which blur the definition of just exactly who is a Jew and therefore responsible for keeping the Covenant. And they do not feel as strongly about the modern State of Israel being the carrying-out of a biblical injunction.

    I guess the point is that the most modern Jews, the Reform and to a lesser extent the Conservative congregations, actually did get Jesus's message. Perhaps it's the same way with the Christians. It's the more liberal ones who seem to have gotten the message of Love and Peace that was delivered by the First Hippie. They're the ones who were in the forefront of the civil rights and antiwar movement back in my day--right out there with the Reform and completely secular Jews.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Why would you think Antiochus succeeded in destroying all the Jewish books?

    Besides, IIRC Muslims accept the Torah as Allah's word given to Moses - the genuineness of it is a tenet of Islam, no?
     
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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    So do Christians. It is after all the first five books of the Bible, all of which is the literal word of God. There was a famous professor of Hebrew (long before the digital age so forgive me if I can't easily Google his name) who introduced his class with the statement, "Gentlemen, this is the language that God spoke."
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Muslims believe in the Gospels and the Taurat as revelations to Prophets [along with a belief that there have been several other such prophets and revelations through time]. However, they are aware that the Gospels of Christ are lost and the Torah has been interpreted in the Talmud. ie when Jews talk about the Torah, they actually talk about rabbinical interpretations of the Torah and not the verses of the Torah itself.
     
  9. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Regarding the question posed in the OP, perhaps God comes to us in the guise we are prepared to accept. At the time of the old testament, we were savages and would not have accepted the love and peace message of Christ. Even more important, a people devoted to that sort of philosophy would probably have been wiped out by their more ruthless neighbors. By the time of Christ, we were ready for a more peaceful, love thy neighbor message. Especially once we had Rome backing us up.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, can't get more peaceful than the Romans.

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  11. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I do seem to recall something called the Pax Romanus.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Is that like the War on Terror?

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  13. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I think you're overgeneralizing from a small sample of Jews. Especially in a place like America, there are a lot of people who consider themselves members of a Jewish congretation who have read the Torah--or even the entire Old Testament--in English, but have not studied the Talmud.
    It's Pax Romana. Peace is feminine.

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    Pax Romana is a name given by modern historians, not by the Romans, to the first two centuries of the Common Era. It was indeed a relatively peaceful Roman Empire, both within its borders and without. There was a major lull in expansion of those borders through conquest, as the expansionist generals had been recalled by the emperors. Since there were still occasional rebellions of occupied populations that "had to" be put down, it could be argued that the Pax Romana was experienced more completely by foreigners than by Roman subjects.

    There were a couple of exceptions; the conquest of Britannia occurred during this period.

    The concept and the name Pax Romana really caught on. Based on that model, subsequent historians have coined Pax Americana, Pax Assyriaca, Pax Britannica, Pax Europeana, Pax Germanica, Pax Hispanica, Pax Minoica, Pax Mongolica, Pax Ottomana, Pax Sinica, and Pax Syriana.
     

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