Is the Bible sexist ?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Ted Grant II Registered Member

    Messages:
    18
    I downloaded a free copy of the Bible and to my delight, it came with a search utility. This enables me to find occurrences of a string of characters, including chapter and verse and a count. So I thought it would be interesting the know how often the strings "son" and "daughter" appear along with other gender specific strings. There might, of course, give spurious results for all sorts of reasons. "son" could be part of a word and as it is short, this is more likely than "daughter". In addition, "son" is easier to write than "daughter". However I shall ignore the resulting bias for the simple reason that I am biased and lazy. Here are my findings, showing the strings and the corresponding counts...

    son 3177 daughter 507 man 4538 woman 351 father 1551 mother 291

    brother 362 sister 124 uncle 207 aunt 9 husband 152 wife 373

    In Leviticus chapter 12, it says that if a woman has a man child, she shall be unclean 7 days,
    If a woman has a maid child, then she shall be unclean for 14 days.
    In Luke chapter 14 verse 26 Jesus says "If any man come to me and hate not his father and mother and wife and children and brethren and sisters, yea and his own life also, then he cannot be my disciple". If he was unbiased, he would have said, "If any person comes to me and hate not their family and themselves also, then they cannot be my disciple".
    In First Timothy chapter 2 we find, "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    In First Peter chapter 3 we find, "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your husbands"
    In Colossians chapter 3, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands"
    In Corinthians chapter 11, "the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man and the head of Christ is God".

    then just for fun, here are some more counts, nothing to do with sex, but interesting to me...

    bullock 138 unicorn 9 angel 289 dog 40 kill 215 love 546 wrath 197 forgive 95

    gods 215 spirit 523 cherubim 57 ghost 108 smite 133 throne 165 dragon 34

    heaven 691 star 79 planet 1 horse 188 threshing 30 stoned 21 command 839

    Moses 783 Jesus 943 church 111 temple 191 tabernacle 327 Israel 2319 Egypt 646

    By the way "stoned" has nothing to do with drugs in the Bible.
    The usage is clear from the following example taken from Numbers chapter 15 verses 32 to 36...

    And while the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day.

    Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him.

    Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.”

    So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    The Bible is a book of literature of it's time and by today's standards it's a lot more than sexist.
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    2,589
    Could you see if "he pisseth it up the wall" appears in the version you have. I think it appears four times in my copy.
    Up until recent time the ladies did not get much of a look in...in fact they still get poorly treated.
    Their poor treatment I believe is due to a large degree in the way the bible has presented them as second class and if for no other reason the bible should be edited to fix the problem or thrown in the trash.
    It is incomprehensible how any modern intelligent human can offer this book as authority for anything.
    Its status should be no more than an interesting example of ancient literature.
    Alex
     
    MacGyver1968 and birch like this.
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  7. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    The bible is a guide to live in peace with your God and with your fellow men. ( Love thy God with all your heart and love your fellow man as yourself ) the rest are fillers
    Now, if you are interested in ancient literature that is fine . So let it be as it is specially the New Testament.
     
  8. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    2,272
    Why don't you enlighten me with the KORAN.
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    2,589
    Yes I know that is how you see it and it is great that you can get some use out of it.

    As I have said it(the bible) needs an edit to get rid of the fillers as you call them.
    It is wrong to just say it is not important.

    Certainly the bibles sexist approach is clearly evident and to leave it so is absolutely and utterly wrong.

    You may mentally edit out the fillers but so many folk use the bible to justify their bad behaviour.

    I mentioned a chap recently who grew up in a community where the bible was used to justify sexism and racial hatred.

    This is not right.
    And it is people such as yourself who perpetuate this wrong. It is your book fix it.

    For goodness sake if I took so many of the biblical passages and changed the words to sound modern but retained the message folk would call those new words disgusting racially horrid, degrading of ladies, and don't forget that slavery is totally acceptable and carries its own set of rules.

    Yet you refuse to see this.
    You are wrong and sticking to wrong is evil and wrong.

    The problem is folk just will not have it that the bible is wrong.

    And the bit you say about love your fellow man is absolutely ignored by the government of the USA and yet it is proclaimed in God we trust.

    Throw away the bible and replace the message with, if nothing else, that women deserve at least the same respect as men or,as I believe more respect, they are after all the mother's of all humans past, present and future.

    How can humans be so bloody minded to think men are somehow superior. Well what else can we expect when for hundreds, no thousands of years, the bible says that's the way God set it up.

    What rubbish.

    And in my view any one who strikes a woman should immediately be put to death and the book that has caused humans to disrespect women should also be put to death.

    The genes that prompt a scum bag to be a woman basher should be wiped out along with any text that supports treating women as second class, or as mere possessions.

    Damn your fillers if you want to write the message you suggest do so but keep it away from the fillers you conveniently ignore.

    They are there and they (your fillers) are wrong and it is wrong to simply accept it as OK.

    It is not OK you are a very intelligent man but yet when I suggest the only intelligent option you hang up the gone fishing sign.

    Look if there is a God he would be horrified that humans lie about what he expects.
    Man wrote creation incorrectly and no doubt he wrote how women should be treated as wrong also.

    I am sure God (if he exists) expects that women should be treated with higher respect than men.

    When you talk to him in your prayers ask him and I bet in your heart you will realise what I say makes absolute sence.

    Alex
     
  10. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

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    277
    Or it could be that "son" is referring to nothing other than the sun considering that the Pagans worshiped the sun.
     
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    2,011
    I think the real problem is religion rather than the Bible. The Bible is what it is...a book of ancient literature. The problem is a modern organization using the Bible as a guide.

    The other problem is that whatever the minister is of a particular church wants to say/preach...he can. It's in the Bible somewhere so what you really (potentially) have is just a passive congregation listening to the whims of one individual.

    It really has very little to do with God or with the Bible. It's just justifying whatever crazy set of local morals exists in that community. Going to church is Mississippi is very different than going to church in London.
     
  12. wellwisher

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    4,996
    If you read the New Testament, Jesus left behind a comforter, the spirit of truth; Holy Spirit. This is a living spirit; organic. It is not based on commandments contained in ordinances, carved in stone; cold and dead. Unique interpretations of the bible are sanctioned because of the living spirit. Speaking in tongues and prophesy are both acceptable ways to educate.

    Corinthians 14:1-12

    Paul explains: “Anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.”

    “Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves.”

    “But the one who prophesies edifies the church.”


    Jesus was never about PC, but rather about freedom of speech; in a spirited and spontaneous way. This is why Christianity is successful, world wide. The living spirit give the teacher flexibility to accommodate differences in people and cultural perception.

    Corinthians 9

    Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

    Paul tailored prophesy or interpretation, to help deal with th different filters of the mind; bias and expectations, within various groups. He was not under law, but rather under spirit, therefore it was able to more flexible and move between taboo groups. He became all things to all people so he could reach them.

    I used to live in southern USA, where churches are composed of a preacher, in a small building, supported by those who attend the church. The preacher and the small flock tend to be good for each other. The preacher teaches them in the way they are able to learn. Since the flock supports the preacher, their preacher will reflect this. If they are a successful group, their preacher will appear successful as well; given a new cadillac. There are people who worship celebrity. Their preacher will need to be larger than life, while living the lifestyle of the rich and famous to reach them. They will happily provide for him so he can prophesy to them. There are also those who like organization and authority and they will seek the big box churches. There are also those who speak in tongues; agnostic.
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    2,589
    Please tell me more.
    Alex
     
  14. wellwisher

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    4,996
    Speaking in tongues often comes across as gibberish; nonsense talk. Speaking in tongues is not so much about talking gibberish, like a verbal stunt, but rather it is about trying to express an intuition, where the words sort of get in the way. For example, picture someone who never explored their feelings, but one day had deep feelings. They may not be able to put this experience into the words needed to allow them to convey clear meaning to others. However, just trying to talk about it, may make them feel good. This can benefit the individual, but it may not translate beyond them. This will often happen very early in the creative process, where the picture is incomplete, and others can't see where the idea are heading. It may seem like gibberish.

    Prophesy is similar, but appears later in the creative process, when ideas are more organized and can be better transferred to others. Prophesy does not have to be dramatic and be about the coming of Christ or the end of the world. It can be about small things, that benefit the future of oneself and others. A person can be angry with a neighbor. Their future may be changed by providing then some unique insight or wisdom leading to a new future.

    Religion is often about preparing for the future; eq., heaven and hell. This can make it harder to live in the present, by impacting the natural psyche. Speaking in tongues can help the individual be more self sufficient as they listen to their own inner adaptations. Prophesy can help make tomorrow easier for others.

    Paul became all things to all men. He tried to walk a mile in their shoes so he could figure out how their brain was wired. People will not often trust outsiders, but will trust birds of a feather. Paul became like one of them, so he could be on the inside, where he could help them see the future. Prophesy requires not only an intuition, but the intuition in the context of the way other people see. Speaking in tongues may not be able to cross to the other side.
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    5,265
    This is remarkably silly. As Seattle points out (and as I have previously mentioned in another thread), the bible is a literary work, dating from thousands of years ago. Women only started getting the vote around a century ago and "sexism" was only invented less than half a century ago. Have some sense of historical perspective, please!
     
  16. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    2,272
    If you are other than from were the Anglo derived Anglo. In Spanish Sol = sun, Hijo = son
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    2,011
    Why would "son" be referring to sun? This is a Bible that has been translated into English.
     
  18. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

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    And where do you suppose the Bible came from before it was translated into English?

    Also,
     
  19. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    2,011
    I know where it came from but is it your impression that the translation you are reading or responding to isn't a good translation?
     
  20. ForrestDean Registered Senior Member

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    277
    That's right. What I'm saying is that I believe the information regarding the "son of God" that was rehashed and translated into the Bible we have today is not referring to an individual but an astrological personification of the sun itself.
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,028
    Well, except for the parts that tell you all the people you should rape and kill.

    You can take from the Bible whatever you like. Want to live in peace with your fellow man? Great! You can find that stuff in there. Want to enslave men to labor for you, keep women as property and deny basic civil rights to almost everyone? There are whole chapters on how to do that. Want to get a gun and murder dozens of people in the name of God? Unfortunately, everything you need to justify that is in there too.

    Very much the same.
     
  22. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Why am I not surprised?
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you for taking time to explain how you understand this matter.
    I find it hard to understand these things but I try to work out how participants see their actions and I try to understand their motivations.

    Alex
     

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