Is Science a value system?

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Magical Realist, Jan 15, 2015.

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  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Well put, and therein lies the totally inane and anti science persona that this fanatic continues to exhibit.
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So how are Maxwell's equations involved with the building of a computer? How did they lead to the invention of the first computer? Perhaps YOU should educate yourself before blindly supporting a claim.
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I have cable not satellite TV. I don't own a cellphone. And I use Verizon as my internet server. Today I will eat a can of soup that I purchased from the store without the use of a satellite. And no deliveries are scheduled today. So no, satellite usage is not an imperative for getting thru my day. Not that the science of astronomy had much of anything to do with the invention of satellites.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Maxwell's equations led to an understanding of current and voltage and how they interact. As a very simple example, Maxwell's Equations describe how magnetic fields form and how current can be transformed into magnetic field and back - and how the current that creates the field is influenced by the field itself. This led first to core memory (the first large scale computer memory) and then to tape, floppy and hard drives for information storage.
    As another example, Maxwell's Equations form the basis of understanding semiconductor physics, and thus transistors. They made possible the first transistorized computer (the Manchester computer) as well.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    That wasn't a computer. It was a mechanical calculator, like a fancy abacus. The ENIAC was the first computer, and yes, it did indeed rely on the principles that Maxwell put forth in his laws. (Movement of electrons in an electrical field.)
     
  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are referring to Ohm's law. I don't see the relation of Maxwell's equations to anything involved in computing. As far as electronics is concerned, I attended Navy electronics school and not once was there a reference to Maxwell's laws.
     
  10. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Please wiki it and paste the first sentence of the article here. You should have already at least googled it and I have no intention to try to spoonfeed you knowledge that you don't really want.
     
  11. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    None of that is accurate wrt how satellites are used every day. Virtually any TV you watch has spent some part of the trip to you bouncing off a satellite, for example, and intercontinental internet transmissions often do too. And the can of soup was delivered to the store with the aid of GPS. not to mention the crops were grown with the aid of GPS and weather satellites.

    But of course, you already knew all of that and are just trolling.
     
  12. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    You didn't learn about Maxwell's equations in a Navy electronics school because technicians don't need to understand the foundational science to fix things. You only need the science to design them.
     
  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No article listed.
     
  14. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Use your brain, MR. I'm certain that with 3 seconds of thought, you can find the article I am referring to. Yes, I could spoon feed you, but my goal is to force you to think.

    Edit; actually, the second sentence of the article is more explicitly/succinctly on point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No. Ohm's Law doesn't speak to magnetic permeability, magnetization, effects of saturation or any of the other half dozen concepts that you need to get (for example) core memory to work. Knowing only Ohm's Law you would be hopelessly lost trying to design core memory.
    Right. And people who train to be a car mechanic never once hear about the work of Nikolaus Otto, Robert Boyle or Giovanni Venturi - even though they would not have a job without the concepts those people developed.
     
  16. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder if that's what this is really about; an inferiority complex over being technician vs a scientist/engineer?
     
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I will concede that it plays a role in the development of magnetic memory. But bear in mind the first computers didn't have this sort of memory. So its doubtful Maxwell's equations were crucial to the actual invention of the computer.

    http://gizmodo.com/5498229/delay-line-memory-how-computers-remembered-before-ram
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I have no intention of second guessing what article you are referring to that you didn't post.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Another cop out among many other cop outs and manufactured philosophical banter by MR.
     
  20. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    You are being intentionally dense here by trying to overly limit the scope of the discussion point. That's a key tactic you are using in the thread; downplaying the role of science by ignoring virtually all of its impact and focusing instead on one tiny piece of a subject where it may not apply. Obviously, no matter how limited you try to make the example, the reality is that the impact is VAST. Ignoring the rest of it doesn't make it go away, it just shines a bright spotlight on your trolling.

    The fact of the matter is that what is described in Maxwell's equations underlies modern electrical and communications technologies; anything that uses electricity has at least some basis in Maxwell's equations.
     
  21. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Sad, MR. Your refusal to think is very sad.
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Ahh..but then I wasn't the one who claimed Maxwell's equations led to the invention of the computer, was I? So whatever scope is in this claim, it was set there in the very beginning.



    Hmmm....no electrical circuits before the formulation of Maxwell's equations?

    "A relay is a remote switch controlled by current, magnetism, or temperature. The relay was invented in 1835 by Joseph Henry (1979-1878), an American scientist. It made modern telegraphy possible and evolved into the repeater- thus the relay- a remote controlled switch, was in effect the first ( Electronic) device, though not anything involving crystals, diodes, vacuum tubes etc. The first invented Relay was used as part of his telegraph system circa 1844. It was used in long distance telegraph circuits, repeating the signal coming in from one circuit and re-transmitting it to another. Since then, relays found extensive use in telephone exchanges and early computers to perform logical operations."
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  23. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Let's see if I can force the thought into your head by summing-up:
    Hmm.... Which wiki article might I be referring to? Figure it out yet, MR?
     
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