Is religion relevant in a modern day society?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Never say never, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Never say never Registered Member

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    Is religion relevant in a modern day society?
    I am currently preparing for a public debate on the issue and would love to know your opinions and thoughts that may prove useful.
     
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently it is, wether we like it or not.
     
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  5. Shaitan lord of hades Registered Senior Member

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    no it's not, but we need something to keep the plebs amused. dont we.
    it's bad enough them killing each and everyone now, but how much more dangerous will they become, if you take away there comfort blanket.
    so whether it's relevant or not, purely just for health and safety reasons it should be kept.
     
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  7. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    its losing relevance - hence so many problems in the world
     
  8. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    It's losing relevance hence why our standards of living, quality of life, and knowledge around the world are generally on the increase.
     
  9. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, as humanity is fundamentally religious in nature.
     
  10. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Cris

    like clean air and water, food products free from contaminants, the prospects of the globe not getting major cosmetic surgery in the next 50 years from nuclear war or due to the previous 50 years of green house emmissions, spiralling industrial develpment etc.

    Or perhaps you mean the quality of contemporary industrial occupations that socially stunt individuals and communities by, causing a plethora of social ills from drug addiction and suicide to reducing social keyposts(as elementary as raising children) to the status of a hobby for the rich.

    etcetc
     
  11. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    LG,

    Like modern hygeine that has only been understood in this past 1.5 centuries. The availability of anti-biotics that now prevent more deaths than any other drug development in the history of mankind. The elimination of a vast collection of diseases that tormented our ancestors. The change in infant mortality rates from abysmal to few.

    Increasing average lifespan from around 44 where it was at the beginning of the 20th century to over double that now to well over 70.

    These were all due to increases in human knolwedge and science. Religion made effectively no contribution to those developments and in many cases hindered science, as it is still doing today re stem-cell research.

    And as for the prospect of nuclear war - that seems most likely as a DIRECT result of religion, especially in light of the ugliness of Islamic terrorism. Removing religion from the world seems certain to make the world a safer place in that respect alone.
     
  12. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    Cris

    lol - the irony of how a culture came to be a superpower by learning to take a bath

    ... with a range of super resistant viruses biting at our heels

    If we have declared war on disease it appears that we lost - we are still tormented

    unless you add abortion into the statistics

    Discovering how to take a bath was really helpful

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - einstein

    Yes - I was personally very concerned about the religious factors that drove the cold war of the 80's

    But that aside, you could argue that because religion is becoming less relevant it has become easier for persons to misrepresent it and utilize it for political reasons .... so it still amounts to the same thing - "The less relevant religion becomes in society, the more problems come"
     
  13. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    How could something that's considered important to billions of people on Earth NOT be considered relevant?

    I would also caution you in the use of the term "modern day society". There are billions of people on Earth today living in something LESS than "modern day society". I would also caution you that many people who actually live and work in our "modern day society" are living in conditions that are considerably LESS than "modern day" conditions.

    Society? What's that exactly? Are people living in the slums of New York City living in the same "society" as people who live in, say, Hollywood, CA? Society is a term that we throw around with little thought to what it actually means or to whom it concerns. I wonder ...is that our overblown ego hard at work?

    Baron Max
     
  14. baumgarten fuck the man Registered Senior Member

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    1,611
    qft. Religion is not going away, it's just shifting forms.

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    The future!
     
  15. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    I should also like to note that religion and civilization are -not- incompatible. Pagan Greece and Rome, the paragons of civilization, were widely religious.

    Ultimately, a return to pagan beliefs may be a viable alternative to pure Atheism as a state religion. I myself would support a widescale adoption of such.
     
  16. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    But when you look at nations with the highest numbers of non-religious and atheists, you see the lowest trends of violent crime. And some of those countries are making the best strides in environmental issues like recycling and alternative energy.

    Looking at the other side, nations with the highest religious nutters, reveals the highest trends in violent crime and worst records in environment and alternative energy.

    Let's *hope* religion is losing its relevance.
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    And manufacturing weapons to sell to third world and dictatorial regime countries.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2006
  18. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    Nations of the religious are the the most violent and crime-filled. Play all the semantic games you like, but this fact will not go away. The United States is the *only* nation in among the wealthiest that has high homicide rate as well as overall crime rate.

    Many very religious nations in Africa are high in human rights violations. South Africa consumes more cocaine than any other country in Africa (UN 2001); it's also the fifth most religious, under Senegal, Nigeria, Cote d'Ivoire, and Mali -four nations were human rights violations are a norm (HRW 2006).

    References:

    HRW (2006). Info by Country: Africa. Human Rights Watch [accessed 9/3/06]

    UN (2001). The Seventh United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (1998 - 2000) [PDF]. United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    1. Who gives foreign aid in the form of large corporations that substitute agricultural produce for cash crops and export food out of countries that are starving and keeps them under crushing debt to maintain control?

    http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/Causes.asp
    http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/05/africa/bond.htm


    2. Who supports dictators in Third World regimes to ensure a good market for their arms (bought with the money ostensibly given as aid) and to exploit resources?


    3. Who supplies arms to these countries under brutal military regimes causing the death of millions through starvation and violence?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/story/0,,1922978,00.html


    So what does all this mean?



    Conflicts in Africa
    http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Africa.asp


    There's lots and lots more right here:

    http://www.globalissues.org/
    http://www.saferworld.co.uk/
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2006
  20. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    Just because capitalism is exploiting the nations of the periphery doesn't detract from the fact that the most religious nations in the world have the worst records of crime and human rights violations. The United States leads these religious nations in at least the crime aspect (some would also argue the human rights violations aspect), so, therefore, your arguments that the non-religious wealthy nations are the cause of crime and human rights violations in the periphery are pure bunk.

    Moreover, if these nations were gullible and credulous with wacked out ideologies of superstition, there mightn't be a market for the evils of the wealthy, exploitive west.

    The fact remains: religious nations lead the world in crime and human rights violations, the U.S. included. QED.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You mean to say the fact that the enlightened Western secular countries with their higher education and greater knowledge of human rights and non-religious morals is not culpable for selling arms, installing dictators, redrawing borders, and ensuring that crushing debt leads to violence, war and starvation BUT the uneducated poverty stricken, starvation and disease ridden people in the Third World countries with no escape from oppression and exploitation are?

    Glad you cleared that up.


    As for the US, are the politicians really religious? Or this is more smoke from the so-called secular humanists?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15228489/
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2006
  22. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    I only noted the correlation. You're the one implying a cause in non sequitur fashion. The correlation is: religious nations have the highest incidences of crime and human rights violations. Obviously, the implication that this is due to the exploitation (which I don't deny) of impoverished nations by wealthier ones isn't the case, since the United States is one of the most religious AND one of the wealthiest. It also has the one of the highest rates of both homicide and overall violent crime.

    I freely admit that my conclusion above about these nations' religiosity contributing to their exploitation to be speculative, but I think its a speculation that can be defended if I cared enough to dig at it. I mean, honestly, would there be a market for Russian made weapons in Eastern if there weren't religious conflicts where the participants believed that genocide is ordained and approved by their superstitions?

    You're truly beginning to sound silly, sam. It's starting to look like you're blaming "atheism" and "secularism" for poverty and genocide. The fault may lie partially (or fully) with the exploitations of the West, but there's no evidence to suggest that this exploitation is done in the name of, or even because of, atheism. However, I would admit that the exploitation is secular, since this implies that it is occurring in spite of religion or lack thereof. Capitalism is not a religious/atheist institution, but rather a secular one in which participants can be both religious and non-religious and still find the same goals in common.

    The fact remains: religious nations lead the world in crime and human rights violations, the U.S. included.
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So there is no association between poverty plus poor education plus unemployment plus lack of basic amenities plus dictatorship AND violence/crime/HRV?

    Its all religion/superstition? And I'm silly?

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    Also you forget, the current drop in violence in Europe can be explained by the fact that it is barely 60 years since the last World War (both of which occurred in Europe for nonreligious reasons) and people may simply be tired of violence. Especially after the horrors of Nazism.

    However, the trend towards racism (always present in Europe) has never completely been eradicated and is now on the rise against immigrants. So are the secular atheists proof against this?
    Seems like a pretty strong correlation to me, what do you think?

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    Last edited: Nov 5, 2006

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