For what it is worth, Wikipedia has this to say about music: "The traditional or classical European aspects of music often listed are those elements given primacy in European-influenced classical music: melody, harmony, rhythm, tone color/timbre, and form." If you consider that it is fairly common for hip-hop (or rap, whichever you prefer to call it) to have all five of these elements, then it can certainly be considered music by that definition, which was derived through the study of classical music and thus caters to your own standards of music. (Note that under this same definition, the sound of a pneumatic drill is not music.) Therefore, unless you can offer a better definition by which hip-hop cannot be considered music, then I think the poll numbers are indeed correct.
And for the record, this is probably the single most ignorant thread that I have so far encountered on Sciforums. You are all ridiculous.
"During the show it became impossible to separate the pleasure of Neubauten's music from the pleasure of making these kinds of deductions: Is that whirring a drill or an air compressor? Is he hitting that metal plate with a hammer or a stick? Is that a spring or a rubber tube making that deep, kidney-rumbling bass sound?" - REVIEW OF GERMAN ART-NOISE BAND EINSTĂRZENDE NEUBAUTEN ON POPMATTERS.COM Music's whatever you want it to be and trying pin it down to this or that is - as someone once said about something else - "like trying to put a fence round a cloud". You're also in grave danger of killing your love of it, assuming that any of you loved it in the first place. I agree with Zarklephaser: this is fucking ridiculous. Enough already.
Yes, I immediately registered your point back there. But how is it that you defend the three restrictive criterion for music, as taught in the basics of music theory, rather than just say two, or one? We have to say that the three criterion must be fundamental assumptions which form the basis of music theory, much like how science itself relies upon a cascade of fundamental assumptions of constants and givens. After all, it is taught in the beginning of most music theory courses.
Technically under my new definition, yes it would be. But it is rather too dull - much faster than the human cardiac rhythym, and at a constant frequency. Thus, nobody would like it. Much like how one abuses pitch by banging out juxtaposed semitones in series. Pitch can also be easily abused, too. Ever heard happy hardcore? Some of those pieces heavily use the pitch-bend midi function. Even though that would be considered music, only a small fraction of the general populace hearing it would develop a taste for it. And happy hardcore, by no means, abuses pitch to the degree that a pneumatic drill does - because a pneumatic drill is not intended for music, whereas happy hardcore does. So a few people would like happy hardcore, but nobody (at least, from Western culture - I have to be cautious about this) would like the sound of a pneumatic drill.
Hey, I'll create a new definiton of what gravity is! It'll be groovy. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
We have to consider man's primal origins. Man was limited to primitive tools of percussion before someone invented the prototype flute, or the prototype guitar.
Ah, I see, rapers are primitives straight from the caves. Ok. Funnily enough it quite suits their erm.. way of expression.
Now you are just avoiding the discussion. I noted parenthetically in my comment that hip-hop and rap are more or less synonymous in this discussion, and regardless, they can both be analyzed by the definition that I cited for you and determined to be valid forms of music. You can pretend that I said rap where I said hip-hop if it helps you to sleep better at night, but I think my argument stands, and with that said, I do expect a head-on response from you.
By my definition they are different things, because hip-hop tends to be more melodical (in its' own primitive level).
Music do not apply only to melodies, but applies to rythm as well. Thus the rythm of rap is a form of music, or wouldn't you call a drumsolo for music? (what would it be otherwise?)
If only all battles could be won by saying "I win". Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Excuse me while I laugh my arse out.
Good argument all around, but I'm not too clear on that statement. Are you judging music by how difficult an instrument may or may not be to learn or play?
You have avoided making any sort of legitimate response since I quoted the Wikipedia definition of classical music and applied it to rap music. Therefore, I assume that you cannot refute it, so I win the argument.
In rap I hear neither melody or any claims on harmony, if we discard the possibility that a pile of rolling trashcans downhill may be harmonious or melodical. You can't "win" this argument, because it's based on subjective perception. And neither can I. But you will never be able to convince me that rap can be considered music the same way as that some inuits are negros.
