Is rap really a genre of music?

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by Facial, Jul 26, 2005.

?

Is rap music?

  1. Yes, rap qualifies as a type of music.

    59 vote(s)
    70.2%
  2. No, it is something else.

    25 vote(s)
    29.8%
  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,834
    I would prefer the word loathe than fear.

    And it does appear as though rap is going through much the same phases as other forms of pop fads, as mrhero has pointed out, its already permeating every form of media.

    That's usually the queue to begin a downward spiral into the 'where are they now' abyss.

    Let us know when it enters the Muzak stage and we start hearing it in elevators.
     
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  3. Mrhero54 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    286
    There is a rapper in every town, city, neighborhood and block. All it takes is will and words. Why is soccer the world's #1 sport. All you need is a ball and people to play. Rap is the same way.

    If you want to start a rock band you gotta buy all this stuff and takeove someone's garage etc. You could be in a car listening to the radio when you concieve your hottest lines ever or taking a shit...were Tupac wrote many hits.

    The rap underground is so strong it could never be extinguished. After gangsta rap has its fling some other popular type of rap will take over and so forth.
     
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  5. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Inspired by the excretion of fecal matter, makes sense.
     
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  7. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    2,223
    LoL.
     
  8. Roman Banned Banned

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    11,560
    Well, mostly blacks listen to rap, and blacks do have the lowest IQ of any group in the US.
     
  9. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,999
    There are black people whose iq would make yours look pretty embarrassing.
    If you don't know what causes trends in iq differences, i.e. educational opportunity, you are blind.
     
  10. Roman Banned Banned

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    11,560
    Look. The majority of rap artists are black, they sing about black things, rap was pioneered by black artists, so it makes sense their audience is largely black. So, if your audience is largely black, and largely uneducated, as you yourself say, is it much surprise then that people who listen to rap have low IQs? Not that s0meguy has offered us any evidence, but I doubt it would surprise anyone.
     
  11. shaman_ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,467
    There is more to rap than just boasting gangstas. I prefer the older stuff myself. Listen to some of Chuck D's lyrics.

    Rap is a pop fad? My understanding is that it has been going strong since the late 70s. Nearly as long as rock music.
     
  12. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,999
    first, the majority of rap buyers are white, not black.

    http://poplicks.com/2005/06/who-buys-hip-hop.html

    Between 60-75 percent.
     
  13. s0meguy Worship me or suffer eternally Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,635
    Perhaps in your particular country - probably the US, but US citizens are enjoying a reputation of beiing stupid and easily manipulatable - but not in my country.

    In my country most black people have a seperate culture, and white people are rarely among them. If they are, they copied their entire culture. Usually these people, black rap/R&B fans included, enjoy bad understanding of their only language and have no intellectual capacity or interest at all. I know that there are exceptions though.
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,834
    Aren't they referred to as "whiggers?"
     
  15. ecclesiastes Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    82
    what is so bad about rap anyway?
    some people enjoy it some people dont..as with anything else...
    theres rythm theres rhyme...i have noticed the lyrics are much more interesting as compared to some pop songs...'bye bye bye'..i mean whats that?
    so if pop can be a genre of music so can rap..
     
  16. Zarklephaser Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    186
    I see that Avatar has finally decided to shut up. How telling.
     
  17. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    ha! contrary to you I am very busy and don't have the time or desire to reply to any forum whim,
    especially to such a person that thinks that rap is music
     
  18. Facial Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,223
    Oh my...
     
  19. anonon Guest

    Rap isn't music because it does not have melody or harmony. I have listened to many forms of rap over the years and once listened to it extensively. I am very familiar with many rap artists, oldschool, newschool, whatever. It's not music. Many people say things like, "my parents said this wasn't music, and look at it now" - this doesn't prove anything except that it has been accepted by the general public, which is not a valid means of judging music, and someone's parent, who is most likely not an educated critic. Popularity, pop music history - this is not a valid means of calling it music. If you want to call it music you need to prove it through musical analysis.

    Music has some form of harmony, melody, and rhythm. I'm going to leave out John Cage for now because that is a very advanced subject that I doubt many are prepared to debate over. Rap, even "oldschool" does not have harmony or melody, just primarily rhythm. At best, Outkast could be classified as "pop" when they employ melodies. Rap does not have musical worth. When I say "musical" I am talking about music theory.

    Many people argue in favor of the poetics of rap but there is little depth to it, and most "depth" that rap has is subjective. Classical music has depth because it employs many advanced usages of music theory from composers that have been educated in the field of music for nearly their entire life. The people who say classical music is "boring" are exemplifying irony because rap has the simplest musical structure out of all contemporary forms of music, and musically is the most "boring" (simplest) form of music that has hit the mainstream. It is not a matter of stylistic preference, this is an objective argument.

    You can't notate rap vocals.. and if they could be classified as "poetry", then they are amateur at best. Anyone who has had to analyze Robert Frost in school realizes the depth of poetics, and how little rap has. Sorry, Nas is shallow at best. If rap contributes anything to the development of music or poetry it will be more advanced forms of rhyming, but, as with almost every form of popular music, rap is a small blip in the musical radar.

    Many people make a mistake as claiming a music invalid because it is not contemporary. This is a logical fallacy because the quality of music does not deteriorate with a time period unless the musician's only worth is being relevant to that time period. Beethoven, for example, stands the test of time, but "Funkytown" is only relevant to the 1970s. Beethoven was never popular music. If anything, folk songs were the "pop music" of Beethoven's day. The reason it's called "classical" is probably because it is the most traditional form of music.. not because it's old enough to be called a "classic".

    The problem with many of these debates is they are interpreted as a stylistic and personal issue, such as the simplicity of playing a string on a guitar. Most contemporary rock music is of equal musical worth as rap, which is to say, absolutely none. This is not a debate of "my music vs your music". I can enjoy listening to, for example, "Red Hot Chili Peppers"... but I also recognize that it is of no musical worth. There are some rock bands that I think are of musical worth, but that is open for debate, so I will not mention them.

    The retort "let's see you try to rap" is ridiculous. This retort is claiming that if one cannot imitate the stylistic aesthetic of rap that it is musically valid. This is counterproductive to your cause, as it in fact proves that rap is nothing but a shallow aesthetic in that regard. Whether or not a rap "sounds wack" or "sounds good" is subjective, that is, up to personal preference. It cannot be classified musically, and poetically, if you tried to rap many forms of complex poetry, people would claim it was "wack".

    Opera is objectively "better" than rap. Vocally, it employs the most talented singing in the world. Many operas have used advanced poetry, and is not restricted to the simplistic x/4 bars that rap is. Whether you think it's "goofy", "boring", etc is irrelevant, it employs some of the most advanced musical aspects, while rap employs the most simplistic, primitive musical aspects. Physics may be a boring class, but it is of more academic worth than a "Video Tech" class.

    Read Aaron Copland's "What To Listen For In Music" and John Winsor's "Breaking The Sound Barrier" before you attempt to say that one form of music cannot be objectively better than another.

    As I said before, I have listened to many forms of rap in my day and am familiar with many rappers. I've checked out "underground" rap like Jedi Mind Tricks. I've heard the "advanced" rap like Nas. I've listened to "oldschool" rap like Rakim, A Tribe Called Quest, and Run DMC. I've grown out of it, though some of it is still mildly enjoyable. It is at best, a form of entertainment. To try to prove it of having any musical worth is a ridiculous endeavor. If you tried to employ advanced musicality in rap, you'd end up with something like Opera.

    I'm 17 and have said that rap isn't music, and think most forms of contemporary music is bad music at that.

    Yes it has. Electronic musicians were doing this way before rap came into effect.

    If you want to argue rhythmic complexity - there are many rock bands, electronic musicians, and classical musicians who eclipse any form of rhythmic complexity that rap has attempted to employ. In fact, "IDM", a form of electronic music, is probably the polyrhythm king in this regard. Have you ever heard of Autechre?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2006
  20. Facial Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,223
    anonon, I once believed what you said at the very beginning of the thread. Indeed, my vote has been cast towards the no.

    But the poll tells otherwise, and I have solved the problem by discounting melody and harmony, making a rhythym the sole basis for qualification as music.
     
  21. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    The pool is no representative of truth, just opinion. In the middle age Europe most people thought that Sun orbits around the Earth.

    Solved problem by disposing of the relevant data.
    So, is the sound of a pneumatic drill music too? You know, it has rhytm.
     
  22. anonon Guest

    Well, this poll wasn't a poll for musicians who are educated in music theory. You could have just looked at record sales or amazon reviews if you wanted to know if a large number of people think rap is a form of music.
     
  23. cole grey Hi Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,999
    To say that music must have pitch implies that during any part of a piece of music, if the percussion instruments play by themselves, that the music has temporarily stopped and been replaced by... what?
     

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