is life really generating order or is it just our false narrative perspective?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by globali, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A missed opportunity. If asked, he could have said, "Crystal balls reveal truth and are proof of my existence. It was my first attempt to grow something".......

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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No there are some 300 different types bio-molecules in all, according to Hazen.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body#Elemental_composition_list

    Seems Hazen was pretty thorough in his estimate of 300 different bio-molecules for humans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Courtesy of physics

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  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i am not so keen on the word "self" as people have a tendency to anthropomorphize things or psychopathically externalize things.

    'self' as a word to my comprehension remains as an internal psyche definition of an intelligent self aware state.

    like a reflection, while calling a different object a reflection regardless of looking at it via a mirror.

    moving back on topic,
    does gravity obey the 2nd law of thermodynamics ?
    what about dark matter & dark energy ?
    can anything exist without being a part of gravity & dark matter & dark energy?(i would assume not)

    when some people observer chaos, others see order.

    one thing that seems consistent is humanity's humanness most often stands in the way of understanding advanced science.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps you may be using too narrow an interpretation of "self" (in context).
    I believe it has to do with chiralty and polarity.

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    This is what Hazen was demonstrating in his lecture.

    If chemistry can build complex nano networks through self-organization, why should the same imperatives not be used for self-organization in bio-chemical polymers? It seems entirely reasonable at that scale.

    These natural bonding abilities are a form of self-organizing dynamic proto-life, at a very basic level.
    The next step up might be Slime-molds, a single celled polyp This single celled organism has some remarkable mathematical abilities.

     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    That's very good indeed!

    I was a bit surprised to see so much Pb and Ce. Where do those come from? Are they biologically needed, or just taken in from the environment?
     
  15. globali Registered Senior Member

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    self is a very tricky concept.
    We are trying to define what is something, with those very same processes.
    Can you see your eyes? people thought for centuries that what you see is what is there. Only recently we discovered that light is composed from colors, that the objects don't actually have colors, etc.
    We also discovered that there are blind spots., not only in our eyes, but in our brain.
    Did you know that there is a form of stroke in the cerebral cortex that makes you lose the concept of one side? These people only shave one side, and if you ask them to draw a clock, they will only draw the numbers of one side, lets say from 12 to 6. Because they lost the concept of left side.


    Pb is never normal. Its an environmental toxin that cannot be excreted by the body and accumulates. It can cause severe IQ deficiencies in children
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Pb in the system is normal; it can't be avoided. An excessive amount is cause for concern.

    The dosage is the toxin.
     
  17. globali Registered Senior Member

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    it doesn't have any functional role even in small amounts. That makes it a toxin to me. In small amounts it may not be that harmful but that doesn't mean its not a toxin.
     
  18. globali Registered Senior Member

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    some further thoughts:

    Our sensory organs and our brain is a way to interact with the external environment.

    Our thoughts are heavily wish and instict driven and they serve the same goal as in mice or ants for example. Curiosity, survival, wealth, reproduction,etc. The method or the content of thinking is different but can you say that we find human thinking more interesting not because of our perspective as humans? Maybe mice would find our conversations boring. example: if you go for a walk with your kid and your dog, and you meet another adult with a kid and a dog, most likely you will pay more attention and talk to the other adult, while the kid will mostly care about the other kid and the dog about the other dog.

    and of course any complex process will appear that it is self-organizing or has a purpose....from the perspective narrative of the results (point of view of the results of this process) ! That is what i would call a self-fullfilling prophecy! lol

    can this apply also to the notion of god or the fine tuning of the universe? i don't know. Thats a way more complicated question and for the sake of my sanity i would rather not think about it since i am a total layman in physics and dont have the intelligence to become a cutting edge theoretical physicist.

    Although from what i am reading here and there (out of interest and curiosity), seems that they too are a bit confused and fighting against each other on who is doing real science and who is a crackpot (string theorist, LQG, MOND theories, etc).

    Fun to watch their fights, but i cannot really say who is right or wrong.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    As long as they are informative, they are useful either way, IMO
     
  20. Beaconator Registered Senior Member

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    I am left to believe the universe is conscious in some way. It is possible it decides what creates chaos and order and either listens, disregaurds, or is completely ignorant of our desires.
     
  21. globali Registered Senior Member

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    .........or the universe is not conscious and there is an issue regarding our perspective, that we can't figure out. That whole fine tuning thing, might be just a brain game.....
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I always try to start with two axioms; "necessity and sufficiency" and "movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency

    Is consciousness necessary for ability to process mathematical values and functions? If not, what unconscious function is sufficient to fill the function that consciousness would fill.

    Dynamic calculation, but not necessarily motivated. The mathematical calculation occurs at the physical level, not as in human calculus. Thefore there is no external mathematical agent. The universe is the mathematical (pseudo-intelligent) agent.

    Chemical reactions are mathematical operations by unconscious atoms. However, atoms themselves are mathematical constructs, yet they are unconscious.

    If I stretch an elastic band and release it the band with spring back to its original length. Conscious memory or physical mathematical properties?

    It is true that if we ask the universe how it does things and we ask it nicely with the correct mathematics, the universe will reward us with an answer. Thank you, big guy.....

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    This is where the concept of god comes from, but god is not neccessary for the universe to function as it does. Like "human mathematics", a "superhuman god" is just another arbitrary symbolic term for the universal mathematical functions.

    IMO, the universe is a mathematical pseudo-intelligence, very similar to a regular unconscious but pseudo-intelligent computer, which can operate independently from a motivated external agent. The mathematics (program) naturally emerging from the universal spatial and temporal geometries.
    and

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    Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  23. Beaconator Registered Senior Member

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    You always say such sweet things
     

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