Is it wrong to kill an animal?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Dudeyhed, Feb 26, 2003.

  1. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Err...I never said animals cannot think, if that was the case, then they would not do anything at all. I just said that their brain capacity is far below that of a human.

    I think I will stop here, I do not like talking against a wall.
     
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  3. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Will you talk with me?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    I'm curious, what did you mean by "brain capacity"?
    No offence, just a question.
    (people are so nervous these days at sci)
    It can't be size of the brain. For instance, gorillas and chimps have about the same.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2005
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  5. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    With you I will talk, why not? It was justthe Raver who said he/she/it will not really listen.

    What do I mean by brain capacity? Well, from a biological standpoint, our brains are bigger (more twists and turns I mean, alongside with a more efficient constrction), granted, they need longer to evolve, that means we are still growing up while other animals are already about to die.
    Furthermore, it appears that we use our brains quite a lot, while an ape or a crow use sticks as "tools" (which was recently proved to be a genetically trait) we are using complex machinery without a problem. We also use a language (yes, I said this before, and just to be clear I will say it again: animals do not have a language, they just have a primitive for of communication), and we managed to create gods, cultures, and complex theoretical structures. This seems an impossible task for the (relatively) primitive brains of animals, hence I spoke of brain capacity.
     
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  7. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, but what is it in the brain that makes us different, from the biological point of view. Is it the share size of the brain?
    ---
    p.s. I haven't slept for 30+hours and been studying all this time, so excuse if I say something stupid, I might not notice that.
     
  8. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Raver, no man could kill a 400lbs boar without a weapon. There's nothing the human body can dish out that would even phase a wild boar.
    I don't care if your buddy "lifts", he would be rucked to death against a tree in short order.
    I've got a boner just thinking about it.
     
  9. Little CowarD Registered Member

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    @ Lou : YOU ARE SICK DUDE!!!
    @Raver : Thanks for the explanation, I went out today and burned my skin in 5 minutes and the spots in my eyes are not gone yet.
     
  10. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    The difference is that we can reason. Like, moral life is not possible without a human consciousness (or more developed one). Abstract thinking is what Man is proud of when he compares himself to an animal. (It's too late in the evening for you, too early in the morning for me.... you know what I mean.)

    PS. Why don't you take a nap?
     
  11. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I said: biological, like structure, etc. Neurology!
     
  12. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    I do not think I can answer that to its whole extend... any people around that perchance have studied biology?
     
  13. Raver14 Registered Member

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    OK...so that was a metaphore dreamwalker an i am currently taking an honors biology class....its kind of to easy for me....but its all good now. and ummm little coward the burns in ur eyes r from eyesight loss...wow never figured...ok but yeah anyways. But what i meant was that like just because we can not understand animals..(i do not give a shit about what scienctests say half of them are ass's no offences to be made to anyone who isnt like that) but like does that not mean that they do not have a language or even a god?...i mean the lemers in rainforest (i think its somewhere in africa) but when they actually warm themselfs using the suns rays some people believe that they apraise the sun god...could that not be true?!?!?....and i have a question of topic but its kinda weird...ok if one was to drink like alcholic beverages but if the drink in moderation is there anything that can come out thats good? i was watching the discovery channel and they said that soemthing happens that can improve your liver...but im just wondering...like that curiouse cat....
     
  14. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Extensive tests were made to see if animals have a language, just for information, I am studying linguistics in University and also have to look at non-human forms of communication. So far, no scientist found an animals that does speak a language, there are some apes that have a rather complex communication, but it only enables them to warn others of predators, like snakes.
    There is nothing that shows they are able of complex thoughts, and many of their communicative capabilities are genetically preprogrammed. Indeed, Bonobos (dwarf chimpanzes) are able to remember things and even think ahead (to some extend). Those are the smartest animals around, but still their thoughts do not go beyond the basic needs (food, sex, place to sleep).

    Go ahead and make a study on animals, show that they speak and think, that they are able to build up complex thought structures. As it is, the areas of the brain that are needed for language are nearly non existant in apes, and even less existant in other animals, so that could be a little problem.
    I do think that an animal that only thinks about the most basic needs, without possesing more capacity for thoughts, and even lacking a concept of death, does not have a god.

    And if you do not believe in what scientist say... at least they know what they are talking about, contrary to you, who only has unsupported assumptions.
     
  15. Raver14 Registered Member

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    See though some scientists can be right but it doesn't make sence to me. But then again im complicated through my thought process. But its good now i must ask we have been over and over the same "crap" for weeks if i am incorrect state how many days/hours/minutes you are the one at a university i on the other hand am just a freashman at highschool...yes i know 9th grade wow get over it...j/p. But ummm like i have a question next to that but it is kind of off topoic. ok, now if one was to be studying something...paresay big big exame how many days should that be put into advance start say a week before or the night before or 5 minutes before??...hey if a monkey who is believed to evolve into what we are today...evolution...well if they could think of future in whatever manner you said, then they do have a bigger brain capacity than that of which i could understand what you said.

    but to brain capacitys humans dont even use aproximently 50% of their brains of what is known so far...but like if we dont know what everything in our bodys is then how come people can say what animals are thinking,believing,acting out as, an such?
     
  16. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    1. Humans did not evolve from monkeys and even Darwin has never said anything like it.
    2. Humans use all their brain (brain activity scans), just some do it with more "cpu" load, some with less.
     
  17. Dreamwalker Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Also, not every area of the brain is used all the time. You do not need the centres for speech when you are looking at a tree, etc.

    The rest... see Avatar.


    If I understand it right, you also ask how long such studies should go? I would not measure it in days, rather in years.
     
  18. Raver14 Registered Member

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    Yeah but see then what ever avatar says is either saying that my biology teacher is lieying or she? has no idea what the talking is about...(if that even made sence) but see though my teacher said to us one day well we did kind of ask if the brain was used at all times like all of it at differnt times ect... and she said well sciensists have yet to determin what every part of the brain serves a function for and that nearly half your brain has proven to be uneffiecient an so on as to not being used...same tests done in most hospitals but see i was just saying whatever i did say. And uh to detect your saying avator darwin sort of looked at how animals an so on did happen to be like when he looked to see how come a piece of meat went moldy an such. he learnt that it was from the flys and moister in air that it grew an people then believed it to be alive. But he like barly did much to add to evolution an he did state that indeed there is a posibility that humans evoled from the great apes...i just studied it and i am looking at it right now since i am doing my homework. but whatever you say could be true but look further into it and then tell me if the books lie or my teacher lies i'd like to know if you even know what the bloody hell your talking about...

    now exuse my spelling mistakes i am soooo not in the mood to fix them all so just get over it.
     
  19. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I have proven some of my profs at university wrong, no big deal. (not biology though).
    I'm pretty sure I and Dreamwalker have said all that had to be said.

    By the way, we didn't evolve from big apes, we all are primates
    and we had one common ancestor, which was the ancestor for all the other apes, including us.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2005
  20. Gambit Star Universal Entity Registered Senior Member

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    Animals are people just like us.

    And if it were not for their nature throughout evolution, human being just would not be who we are at all.
    We should atleast appreiciate the fact that being human is not just about the flesh and bone, it is the simience with our nature and animals around us.

    Killing anything because you want it dead is immoral and wrong, but then that brings up the argument of our food, right ?
     
  21. Awake Just BE! Registered Senior Member

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    I have but I will never intentionally do it again. I think that it is wrong. Why would we? What right do we really have to kill?

    Take it a step further what about insects or spiders?
     
  22. Raver14 Registered Member

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    Ok i'm just going to the dive into the deepend as i sit here watching ER on tnt. But if one was to suggest....or make a suggestion on a topic as of... well on any web sites hospital/reasearch/ect.. well each and every that i seem to look at spew out facts tables ect... an a lot of reasearch places advanced to medical abilities might i add proclaim that a little under half the brain is not known as for what its function is. But going of topic now i sustain a seriouse ailment of sprained/pulled/ruptured/bruiced/over stressed/ an not to add ripped muscles/bones but if one is sustain a specific type of injury like say an over streached, bruiced TB band(muscle running down ur thigh hooking ur knee to ur butt) well how long do you say that injury should be there... i had it an have it still since fall its past deceber in januraury an i still have....you all seem to know medical things fill me in as to why.
     
  23. Awake Just BE! Registered Senior Member

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    I am not medically qualified to say anything but this is sciforums and you asked....

    It all depends on what you have actually done. If you pulled a muscle, depending on severity I would think you would be pretty much healed within 2 wks to a month. If you have torn ligaments then the outcome would be much worse and would depend on how you are taking care of it as well as what precautions you are taking to prevent re-injury. I do know a bad sprain or a joint such as ankle or knee can take 8-10 weeks of crutches and very little weight to heal.
     

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