Is it wrong to have sex for fun, knowing it might possibly lead to an abortion?

If you are willing to admit that living organisms consist of bio-chemical polymers which, in humans require a nine month gestation (growth) period and then through "quorum sensing" form and produce a human being, we are a long way from God created a fully formed human (Adam) from some dust.

That Life is a symbiotic biological process is indisputably established IMO. We don't use terms like gut-flora for nothing. Humans need little forests inside us.
Apparently about 1 kg. of physical stuff in humans is "bacterial material" (great song-title....

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) .

LOL, compared to the bio-chemical complexity of say, a human being, a stealth bomber is a mere toy. A human is a pattern of trillions of individual cells 10% human 90% bacterial, communicating through an electro-chemical neural network, controlled by a central sentient processor.

And you cite a stealth bomber. Bassler showed that an octopus has evolved bio-chemical stealth abilities, which makes it invisible to predators.

Consider this; if sets of bio-chemical cells can create a human organism, why should the concept of sets of humans creating stealth bombers be different. Humans use stealth bombers. Nature does not. However, the concept of "cloaking ability" which is a pretty sophisticated technology has existed in nature for billions of years. Stealth bombers are a product of humans who are a product of nature. Nature created the creators of stealth bombers. That's why we call them "artifacts".

But what you missed is the metaphisical universal imperative of "necessity and sufficiency". This is an important universal law, IMO.
What that means is, example: a whole bunch of hydrogen and oxygen atoms come in close proximity to each other in a confined space. This condition makes it necessary to make water, because there are sufficient compatible components present. Probability does the rest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency

How does a bacterium create "light"? Moreover, how does a beaker of bacteria decide to "turn on the light" all at the same time?

You are seeing it, but not recognizing it , yet. "Necessity and Sufficiency"

Don't worry, I am discovering myself and very happy to say that my relatively uninformed intuition is not that far off the mark from the more advanced hypotheses.

However I can certainly understand your initial scepticism, from your perspective. I just think you are assigning too much importance on this natural phenomenon we call Life. On earth, its everywhere, it's no big deal really as compared to the total potential contained in the entire universe. It is capable of producing an infinite variety and complexity of patterns. Humans are a bio-chemical pattern, neat huh.....

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IMO, you are making it unneccessarily complicated. It is not difficult to create enormous complexity from a simple mathematical constant. Try a few simple fractal iteration and see what beauty magically appears from a very basic mathematical function.

Renate Loll, has a very interesting hypothesis on the fractality of space-time. Check out CDT.

Wow!
=========================
Biology seems to start very, very small, from simple dynamic bio-chemical processes, which already display "motility" at extremely basic levels.

What is a single celled throbbing blob that can solve mazes, tell time, has an intra-cellular communication system and has made it's home everywhere on earth, a very successful species;
It's the slime-mold, "it lives"!!!!!.......

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p.s. someone asked for an example of resurrection. Easy, deprive a water-bear from water and it dies (goes dormant). 2 years later add a drop of water and the water-bear revives and goes merrily on its way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade

Of course, some bacteria also can lay dormant for many years or even decades and when the enviroment changes in some way , become active and do their thing. Resurrection is a natural survival strategy. Put it in context and perspective.

 

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But you do recognize that you and they have a common cause regarding God/Dios/Yahweh/Allah, and women, right?

So you are not going to bring the police and the courts, not going to pass laws and enforce them, not going to vote for politicians who usurp God's prerogatives in this matter.
That's good.

 

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On the contrary, I am not anti-science.
You, on the other hand, are not only avowedly anti-religion, but, in a manner approaching the pathological, see religion and science as diametrically opposed ..... which certainly explains your off~kilter choice for contribution material and assertions of duality that have no basis outside of your political tastes.

As food for thought, what would you make of a group of "scientists" who were investigating the pursuit of science as but a mere psychological foray? Suppose they were mimicking the brain's capacity to experience the sensation of having successfully connected different fields of knowledge in a way that is, as yet, unknown to others .... of course such recipients of this therapy are not actually advancing any new discoveries, they are just subject to processes that synthesize the psychological state attributed with scientific advancement ..... and furthermore, suppose a poster brought this to the forum's attention as a basis to suggest that scientific advancement has no real significance beyond the psychological? Would it strike you as the activities of someone who is hell-bent on subverting the scientific principle to their pathological intentions?

 

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Society is not protecting women right now.

A woman should never feel like she has to choose between having her baby and success in life.

Abortions injure women, sometimes making it impossible for them to have children later even if they want to.

It also can lead to depression and thoughts of suicide.

Why would you ever want to do that to women?

 

Sure. Steam engines are real. Which inevitably means the broadness of their application makes them an unacceptable tool for advancing the atheist agenda ..... hence atheists tend to look for things further abroad.

 

If you want to assert something that is essentially philosophical yet remain adverse to philosophy as a discipline, you frustrate your own interests.

 

So, is entropy functioning in this universe, you know, the second law of thermodynamics, over the first days, weeks, months, years, even billions of years it would take thousands of individual processes to create a fully functional set of male and female human bodies?

In other words, what kind of process, can defeat entropy for billions of years? Actually going in the opposite direction, instead of progressing from order to disorder, going from disorder to order, and higher and higher order over billions of years?

How can you logically invert entropy over such great timespans?

 

Gravity would be a simple example.

 

Agreed. She should be free to make both choices.

So do sports, driving, drinking and regular pregnancy. Who decides if the risk of any of them is worth it? The woman - not you.

Would you ever force a woman to bring a pregnancy to term, knowing it might kill her?

 

Human beings can make well organized, complex, attractive designs like this:

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Nature can do the same thing:

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Exactly. It would never happen in any time scale you are familiar with. But over 4 billion years, the odds of it happening are significantly greater than zero.

Fortunately you do not have to.

Evolution is taught as fact. Any particular version of abiogenesis is not.

Glad you agree we should keep the Bible out of school science programs.

 

Nature does it better, which is just another hint that it is driven by an intelligence.

Even if we are to accept your ideas, it happens in a timescale you are not familiar with. You are talking about events where you cannot factually establish or even name the timescale, nor the variables, nor the relationships of cause and effect between these things.

 

That's no excuse for passing laws against them protecting themselves.
But you are not in favor of that, you said:

- -

The timescale and many of the variables have been established, factually, to a very useful degree of approximation - and better seems to be coming soon.

Darwinian evolution can of course use it to create arbitrary complexity.

That is not a hint, but rather a demonstration, that intelligence is not necessary.

 

And so it did. The development of the 23 gene "modern man" took perhaps as much 200,000 years alone.

You don't. People don't live for billions of years. Nothing lives for billions of years.

But billions of years of relatively short lifespans allows the formation of more "complex" durable patterns, not "disorderly" patterns........difference. Evolution is "adaptive pattern mutation", "natural selection'' selects out the lesser adapted patterns and leaves the best "adapted". This is why the insect has survived all the "extinction ages", they adapt easily and a have a very short life-span with millions of off-spring from a single matingwhich insures a thriving organic continuity.

This is exactly what Bassler referred to when she cited the dangers inherent in using our anti-bacterial cleaning agents which kill everything except the most resistant organisms and artificial entropy here produces efficiency (immunity) instead of disorder in the surviving organisms.

 

No, nature does not necessarily do it better. Nature just does it, precisely because it is not driven by a motivated intelligence, but by mathematical imperatives. And nature makes plenty of mutative mistakes, which are weeded out from the available pool.

Yes we can, via statistical data from collected specimen. You are still living at 2000 years ago.

Today we can do carbon dating, identify specific mineral deposits associated with natural phenomena. We have a wealth of factual information, which you seem to dismiss as trivial.
It isn't.

But due to the great time spans, some "missing links" are hard to find. They are bio-degradable, unless fossilized.

 

It's another hint that the universe is driven by pseudo-intelligent mathematical functions, such as "quorum sensing".
That's why we have been able to discover, analize, symbolize, and apply these attributes of universal values and functions for our own uses.

 

It reads; "Natura Artis Magistra", not; "Deus Artis Magistra'"...........

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My favorite daily stomping ground when I was five......

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(we lived a block away)

 

If nature is guided by an intelligence, would it be rational to expect otherwise?

 

Nature is not guided by intelligence, it is guided by mathematics. Mathematics can act as pseudo-intelligence.

 

Gibberish evasion of the question.

 

Apparently you do not quite appreciate the importance of mathematical constants in the evolution of the universe.

Interestingly the term"gibberish" is more related to religious "woo", not to the very precise and clear language of mathematics.