Is it wrong to be disgusted by homosexuals?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by francois, Feb 1, 2007.

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  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Well, I went back and had a look. You made a one-line reference to male rape in prisons, and very early on you said this:

    So, that's all then?
     
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  3. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    Oops -you missed these bits too...now with the ability to put my statements in context and not have them selectively examined we can answer your query...

     
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  5. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    OK my point is that if every male were homosexual and didn't reproduce then humans would become extinct; conversely overpopulation might also cause extinction. Therefore traits that encourage and discourage homosexuality and heterosexuality are selected for or against in the environment.
    Therefore disgust at homosexual acts might be a natural biological trait aimed at ensuring fitness of the species; as attraction to homosexual acts might be a natural biological trait aimed at ensuring fitness of the species.

    My ethological and primate studies have taught me that many types of grouping and sexual practices occur in the biological world and we humans (whether gay, straight or any angle inbetween) are no different.

    Hope this clarifies my position. Happy to answer any more questions...
     
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  7. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    I have a question.

    Why do you think that if there were no biological trait ensuring that we're disgusted at homosexuality, everyone would be homosexual?
     
  8. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think that.
     
  9. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    Then why bother stating that if everyone was homosexual, our species would die out?
     
  10. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    Athelwulf - you obviously haven't thought through the logic of what you have said....and you have selectively misquoted me to cover your mistake. This is not reasonable.

    This is what I said (#103): "...if every male were homosexual and didn't reproduce then humans would become extinct..."

    This is what you claim I said (#106): "Then why bother stating that if everyone was homosexual, our species would die out?"

    Spot the difference ("...and didn't reproduce...")? I'm sure other forum users will.

    Statement #103 is a truism (New Reproductive Technologies aside).

    You are attempting to manipulate data to fit your perception of truth...please think through the logic of what you say and check your facts first...really its an embarrassing waste of time.
     
  11. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    Um, no. I think my statement still stands. I was referring to your entire statement, even if I didn't repeat the whole thing. It seems like you're just trying to avoid my question.

    But fine. Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. So let's try again:

    Why do you think that if there were no biological trait to make us disgusted at homosexuality, everyone would be homosexual and would not breed?

    I am saying this because I think you need to rethink your logic. Think about non sequiturs.
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    No, I didn't miss them. I just don't see them as adding anything extra to what I quoted from you before.

    Never mind. Let's look at your summary:

    I partially agree with this. Obviously, a gene that made everybody homosexual would not survive in a population, since the species would die out. That much is obvious. However, that does not mean that there can't be a gene, for example, that makes a certain percentage of the population homosexual. I don't think we disagree about this.

    On the other hand, I don't think there are any likely to be any genes which expressly limit population. This is also borne out by the fact that the current human population is continually increasing. But this is another discussion, off topic here.

    The problem is that there are no exclusively "homosexual" acts. Every sexual act performed by homosexual people is also performed by at least some heterosexual people. At the very least, this tells us that not every heterosexual person is disgusted by such acts.

    No argument there.
     
  13. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    James, do you agree that it's a non sequitur to start with the fact that if everyone was homosexual and didn't reproduce, we'd go extinct, and with that conclude that we must be biologically inclined to be disgusted at homosexuality?
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Athelwulf:

    Yes, I agree.

    If everyone ate too much dairy products and died from too much cholesterol, then we'd also go extinct. But that doesn't mean we're all disgusted by cheese, milk and eggs.
     
  15. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    the argument above would mean that homosexuality is an inheritable trait?
     
  16. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    Ah yes, the "gay gene."

    Homosexuality is just a behavior, and people change their behaviors.
     
  17. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    Athenwulf - go and study primate groupings and then ask yourself why are there gay animals?
     
  18. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    unless you are homosexual yourself, you cannot say that for certain.

    edit: posted a split second after zen..sorry for confusion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2007
  19. zenbabelfish autonomous hyperreal sophist Registered Senior Member

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    #106 Athenwulf "Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was." Later in post..."Think about non sequiturs."
    Have this conversation with yourself first.

    #109 James R...The fact that you partially agree with the point is a basis for further discussion...but there are exclusively homosexual acts...those involving two (or more) men...although granted the physical mechanics are the same.

    I want to add at this point that this is a thread in the Ethics, Morality and Justice forum...the reason I have raised a genetic basis as a possibility for disgust is that if we understand why disgust occurs then we can educate people as to theor motivations and stop discrimination against homosexuals.

    To doubters of a genetic basis for disgust think about this:
    Shit or dead bodies smell bad (to most) - but this is not cultural and it is nothing inparticular to do with the shit and carcasses themselves - it is to do with the micro-organisms that cause disease.
    People to whom shit and dead bodies do not seem disgusting will most likely have died from associated diseases and failed to reproduce.

    Starting to make sense now?
     
  20. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    Can you say moral indignation?
     
  21. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    already been covered.
     
  22. francois Schwat? Registered Senior Member

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    Who thinks homosexuals should be courteous/yielding to the horrified majority? Who agrees with the main gist of what I said in this thread?
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It is possible that homosexuality is partly genetic. I have read theories that a "switch" gene may be involved. If that is the case, then the figure of about 1 in 8 people being homosexual makes sense.

    Yeah, like being tall is just a behaviour, and some people lose their legs in accidents and become shorter.

    Some heterosexual women have sex with two or more men - sometimes even at the same time!

    I never thought I'd need to say this to a guy, but maybe you should consider watching more porn.

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    Fair enough. I just don't think you've established your case. At the very least, the disgust you speak of seems confined to a subset of heterosexual males.
     
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