Is it possible for something to come from nothing?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by pluto2, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    The problem is that these particles already have energy, which means the medium in which virtual particles/anti-particles have been created must also have/has the energy (no matter how small or undetectable this energy is), otherwise virtual particles/anti-particles would not be created in the first place since you don't have energy to create something/anything, if there was no energy at all.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
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  3. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    You may want to read up on time-energy uncertainty.
     
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  5. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    The conclusion we can draw from there being no identifiable cause is that cause and effect as we know it does not apply to quantum fluctuations that's not enough to prove that something can come from nothing. It could only be scientific to say that we may never know what causes quantum fluctuations just like saying we may never observe particles in quantum superposition.
     
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  7. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Do you hear yourself? Cause and effect NOT applying is definitely from nothing.
     
  8. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    @Syne



    Speaking colloquially it's from nothing and I said cause and effect as we know it.​
     
  9. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    "As we know it" basically constitutes a science of the gaps. Whatever we cannot currently comprehend is believed to be available to science some indeterminable and possibly near-infinite time in the future.
     
  10. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    By *as we know it* I mean something that we don't know of may be the case, it doesn't have to go to science of the gaps.
     
  11. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Ah, here we go. One of those theists who tries to make science out to be a religion. I believe you use the term "science of the gaps" later on.

    What a joke.
     
  12. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    No. But then I would assume that something can't go to nothing.
     
  13. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    so you equate the term 'belief' with religion??
     
  14. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    If "something we don't know of" isn't science of the gaps then it is an acceptance of mystery without any attempt at a parsimonious explanation.

    There is no making science out to be a religion in observing the simple and obvious fact that some people make broad claims, even beyond the most speculative of science. If evidence doesn't not provide us with at least some reasonable inference then parsimony is the only guiding principle.

    Parsimony requires that we don't just settle for some mysterious cause. That's a primary motivator for scientific progress.
     
  15. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    I read about this on some other physics forum, but for everything I saw it does not say where this energy comes from.
     
  16. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously, don't rely solely on forums and read up on Alan Guth's description of the universe as the "ultimate free lunch" and how it relates to the zero-energy universe hypothesis.
     
  17. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    Another crackpot?
     
  18. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Can you explain what, exactly, in my quote can be considered crackpot? Everything mentioned is pretty ordinary in the standard model cosmology. Now you can have Guth's "ultimate free lunch" without a zero-energy universe, but then you are forced to rely on an infinite regression.
     
  19. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    My mistake, I thought you were thinking Guth is an crackpot. Entirely wrong impression.
     
  20. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    Objection: Then it not nothing.

    Objection: it is not a tptal void or empty space.

    Objection: Energy can convert into matter.
     
  21. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    Well, I see space being a form of energy.
     
  22. river Valued Senior Member

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    I disagree

    space is not a form of energy , but rather ROOM for energy and matter to manifest

    space doesn't interfer or contribute in any way with energy and matter
     
  23. river Valued Senior Member

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    from another point of view you say that space came first , before energy and matter

    the thing is though , what would bring space into existence in the absence of energy and matter ? and really be infinite in its existence
     
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