Is it possible for something to come from nothing?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by pluto2, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    But that room needs to have energy just to exist in the first place.
    If gravity affects space and time, than obviously space truly is some kind of energy.
     
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  3. Gravage Registered Senior Member

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    The absence of energy and matter we observe and that we know. There has to be some kind of pre-universe colossal energy that powers up entire universe, and it does not come from nothingness, nothing means nothing, but there is always something, in this case it has to be primordial something.
     
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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Another way to look at this is connected to the creation of something that did not previously exist, like an innovation. The computer did not always exist. As a marco-entity it appeared from nothing, since there was no precedent. However, it makes use principles of nature and science but used in slightly different ways. It would not appear naturally, based on just the natural degrees of freedom of matter, energy and force, but rather is based on additional man-made degrees of freedom which are created anew.

    A factory will not spontaneously appear within the universe, even though it is fundamentally based on materials and laws of nature. The reason is, the combinations in the factory are not natural but rather represent new degrees of freedom that deviate from the natural.

    If we extrapolate this backwards in time, say the universe was composed of nothing. In the natural world there are only certain combinations or degrees of freedom by which nothing will assemble. There would need to be new additional degrees of freedom added, like the technology in a factory, which allows additional combinations so something additional will appear.

    Again, this premise can be proven simply by looking at synthetic creations and the additional degrees of freedom which will not occur in the natural world based on the degrees of freedom natural uses.

    For example, we will not find metallic aluminum in nature since it is very reactive with oxygen. But as we look around there is metallic aluminum everywhere. This exists apart from the natural status quo. It then becomes the foundation of endless combinations all of which come from apparent nothing; metallic aluminum did not exist.

    We should not assume what we call elementary particles is the first state. It can be an assembly based on a new degree of freedom stemming from what we see as nothing.
     
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  7. prometheus viva voce! Moderator

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    Mod note: wellwisher warned for meaningless post content.
     
  8. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Do I have to say this again? The total energy of the universe is practically zero.
     
  9. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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    So, does the Something Forever idea, which is a basic something not coming from anything, since eternal, reduce to, well, not anything, as in the opposite idea of Something From Nothing?

    Also, do the two opposite options together cover all cases, such as that one of them must be true?
     
  10. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    They can both be true according to the inflationary bi-verse theory.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  11. RoccoR Registered Senior Member

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    Gravage, et al,

    I'm thinking that this train of thought has merit.

    (COMMENT)

    While I think some aspects of today's theories in relativity and quantum mechanics will survive the test of time. But I think there is much to be desired in the current cosmological models, concepts of energy, and force carriers.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  12. river Valued Senior Member

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    look Gravage name me a distortion of space that doesn't include an object ?

    my point is that an object is involved in space-time , space-time devoid of an object is meaningless
     
  13. Xotica Everyday I’m Shufflin Registered Senior Member

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    SciForums.com : Science : Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology :
    Is it possible for something to come from nothing?

    A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing
    Lawrence M. Krauss / Free Press / 2012 / 224pp

    Lucid and accessible to the layperson, Krauss explains how a universe can arise from nothingness.
     
  14. river Valued Senior Member

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    give me a link Xotica
     
  15. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    my consciousness of myself and this world, came from nothing. So did everyone else's alive. Or we will deny that, since its not materialistic?
     
  16. Xotica Everyday I’m Shufflin Registered Senior Member

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    Available at most public library systems and also in digital format (Kindle)
     
  17. river Valued Senior Member

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    so much for that

    probably nonsense anyway
     
  18. river Valued Senior Member

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    its not a matter of whether of materialism so much as it is , whether nothing has the natural ability to become or change INTO .....

    that is the issue
     
  19. Xotica Everyday I’m Shufflin Registered Senior Member

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    Lol. Pretty sad when you're just too lazy to visit a library.
     
  20. river Valued Senior Member

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    actually its troubling that you suggest this but have no idea what the gist is about this theory

    if you have read this theory yourself then I would think you could of given us some idea at least what it was about
     
  21. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Consciousness is materialistic. Thoughts are material in nature.
     
  22. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Let me try this again. I will try to make it easier to see where I am coming from. The topic is something from nothing. What I contend is, something from nothing is possible but require more than one layer of order to be possible.

    For example, say we found the synthetic element Nobelium #102 on the moon. This is synthetic and cannot form naturally using the current laws of science. If it was found, it would something from nothing, since there is no known natural path. Itr would ranomly appear without any natural logical path; poof!

    Rather than except that explanation, we would try to add another layer of potentials, but based on the artifical manipulation of matter using science and engineering. With this double layer, now we can make that something from nothing, become something from something.

    Something from nothing, in terms of the universe, is without natural explanation. Instead we have to rely on speculative theory which is a manmade layer. I would guess there is another layer that we are missing that makes something from nothing.
     
  23. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    thoughts are not consciousness. Consciousness is a special condition within thoughts, condition of self-awareness, that only we possess.
     
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