Is hot sauce and cold showers discipline or abuse?

Perhaps, but just barely.

You were talking about spraying prisoners with hoses, a practice I've only seen used for crowd control.

Why not? Our current methods seem to be pretty ineffective. The embarassment and pain of being stripped naked and publically whipped would be a pretty strong deterrent, I'd think. Also, it would be a lot cheaper than incarceration.

I support the death penalty 100%. No other punishment is adequate as punishment for the taking of a human life.

That question is juvenile and thoughtless. Their ability to "fight back" has absolutely nothing to do with it. The fact is that an older child has privileges that can be taken away and is old enough to understand the connection between a non-immediate punishment and whatever bad action he engaged in. Are you going to ground a 2 year old? Take away his car? Even time out is pretty useless as the child often doesn't even realize he's being punished. But a simplle smack on the hand or butt gets the point across immediatel

No. You'll teach them that bad actions have consequences, sometimes serious and even physical consequences. You're method will teach them that no matter what happens, no matter what the provacation, no one will ever dare raise a hand against them. A lie the real world will soon correct.

No, hot water was not available. The purpose of the cold shower was good hygiene. As to the consequences of refusing, I don't know. No one ever refused as far as I know.

I've had my mouth washed out with soap, and no I didn't like it. But I never liked any other punishment either. That's kind of the point.

PS Do you have any children?

 

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You dolt, sodomy can be fun too, but not if it's imposed on you involuntarily.

 

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Ultra liberalism is why kids have no respect. In nature a lion will cuff a cub if it gets out of line, and there is nothing wrong in that. To me, it's a matter of degree. When I was a child I got thrashed beyond reason, which was unnecessary. But some physical dicipline can act as a deterrent. If it keeps a kid off drugs or out of jail, then there is a case to say that "tough love" does have a role to play. The problem is there are no standards, everyone is left to decide for themselves and when full of anger, are probably going to veer toward the excessive. So as things stand, it's probably better not to do it at all.

 

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So if you don't beat your kids, you are an "ultra liberal"? WTF?

 

you don't know what the eff you are talking about. there are right wing conservative people who have no respect either.

 

I did answer you, you must not have got to the conclusion of my post.

I'm not raising my partner. He is my peer and our relationship is egalitarian. I can't tell him what to do because he isn't a child. I have no authority over him, I can't send him to his room when he angers me. But a child can be sent to their room or to timeout. Children and parents do not have an equal relationship until the child becomes an adult and even then there is still a bit of inequality. As your parents are still your parents and if you care for and respect your parents, they still have some power over you. When my mother tells me to do something I could refuse, but I don't because I love and respect her.

 

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My mother yelled at us like that all of the time.
Perhaps for some people, but for most Tobasco sauce is benign. I eat in large amounts all of the time, have licked it off my hand when cooking with it and have consumed packets of it on a dare back when I was kid. It stings but then you swallow it and less than a minute later it's gone. If you get it on your lips it might sting for a few minutes longer after the taste is gone, but it's hardly life threatening. Sometimes if you have sensitive skin you can get blisters from hot food, but if the child in the video was sensitive to it his mother probably wouldn't use hot sauce because then she'd have to take extra care of him to treat his blisters that she caused.
But fine I'll hold a tablespoon full in my mouth and see what happens. If it's agonizing like most people here claim, I'll recant my statements.

Are there really people who have never taken a cold shower or pushed into a cold water at the pool, lake, or beach? I didn't know cold water was so lethal...

 

As you may note, I concluded saying physical dicipline should be avoided. I stand by what I say, I feel a culture of liberalism have allowed drugs, underage sex and alcoholism to propogate. The political correctness we are encumbered with interferes way too much in family matters. But that is another matter. I was very amused by the OTT moral outrage at my post. PC is just a way to wuss out of hard decisions. Even the political right is just where the centre used to be. Go hug a drug dealer, see if it reforms him.

 

I'll just put this here:

Babies often tortured by fundamentalist polygamists

 

Wrong. Nixon would be called a liberal socialist today. The right wing has become so far right, they even consider the positions they themselves held a few years ago to be radical leftist ideas.

 

Ah, yes. I was forgetting things are a bit different over there in the good ol' US of A. Your extremes are more extreme than ours. My apologies.

 

I'm sorry for my USA bias.

 

As to effectiveness:

Within three years of their release, 67% of former prisoners are rearrested and 52% are re-incarcerated, a recidivism rate that calls into question the effectiveness of America's corrections system, which costs taxpayers $60 billion a year.​

Read more: U.S. Prisons Overcrowded and Violent, Recidivism High — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933722.html#ixzz1CxYodThC

As to the rest, yes the criminals should be punished. And, if they are ever to be released again they should also be reformed.

Well Singapore, which practices corporal punishment to this day has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. I remember the case of the American teenager caught commiting vandalism and sentenced to being caned in Singapore. I'll tell you what, that's a pretty strong deterrent and I wholeheartedly approved of the sentence.

Why should criminals be given free food, lodging, and healthcare? Cane them and sentence them to home arrest with electronic monitoring.

Complete bullshit. You should never subject your child to corporal punishment out of anger. If you're mad, you need to wait until you cool down. Punishment is like medicine and is given for the benefit of the child, not for the parent. Hitting a child for the reasons you give would be abuse.

You might hope that, but violent people are everywhere. And the law doesn't help you until after a crime has already been committed.

The sensation is still the same. Mildly unpleasant. Frankly, I'd much rather endure a cold shower than be grounded for a week. The same would go for holding hot sauce in my mouth. It's over in a moment whereas the discomfort caused by many non-physical punishments last a lot longer.

Which punishment is the most effective will vary according to the person being punished. Why it is that you are so determined to remove even minor forms of physical discipline from the tool kit of parents? Why is physical punishment so different in your mind from other forms of punishment? The point is to associate some unpleasant outcome with bad behavior. That punishment could be physical, mental, or both.

Washing out the mouth with soap is violence now too? Hell, I'd rather have soap in my mouth than cabbage. For one thing, I wasn't forced to swallow the soap. And just the smell of cabbage is enough to make me want to vomit. Yuck. Even worse, I was forced to put cabbage in my mouth even when I hadn't done anything wrong!

 

you wonder why "criminals" come out of prison with no more (and probably less) respect for the laws than before they went in but you still make the assumption that even with that apaling rate the way your doing things is either a) the best way or b) the only way.

Lets think about this, why do people comit crimes?
for greed (power, money ect)
because they are desprate
because of physical or mental illness
because they are a sociopath

Now there is little you can do about the 4th catigory at presant but the more experimentation on various treatments the more likly this is to become treatable

The third group are really easy, treat them the way they deserve. Ie you wouldnt call someone having a heart atack and plouing into another car to be cupable driving but the US (specifically but other countries too) insist on finding every possible way to firstly aviod making the treatment freely avilable in the first place BEFORE the crimes commited (as a crime prevention method if you are all to selfish to do it on humanitarian grounds) and then when your shown how wrong you when the person has a psycotic break and kills the lady next because "she is working for the CIA and implanting divices in his head" you blame them and give them life in prison where you STILL refuse to provide good quality mental health care or the you give them the death penelty because they have no value (as a corprate slave)

the second group are another indication of how selfish sociaty has become, rather than providing social services to ensure people dont GET this desprate you would rather lock them up and throw away the key

the first group are more than likly able to be rehabilitated but insted they are isolated from sociaty, degraded, humiliated, given the bare minimum you can possable get away with and when the budget needs slashing rather than slashing the subsides given to companies (in direct oposition to the very values the right expound) its health, social services and prisoner services which are slashed. Look at how prisoners are stacked into cells in california as an example, the courts themselves have show that even by the general standeds they are apaling but no efforts are being made to improve them and then you all wonder why you have high revisditation rates, what exactly have you taught the prisoners? have you brought them back into sociaty and recoected them so they actually give a toss or have you just made them even more jaded and disconected?

If you want proof of this look at the work being done in the aborigional area. The old aproch was the "hard line" aproch which lead to high reviditation rates, high rates of mental illness and high rates of suicide. Now efforts are being made to a) provide the social and health services needed b)provide the job opertunities and c) when they do offend to reconect them with there communities in order to lower reofending rates and guess what, it costs more but it works. You also get a more productive, healthier and better educated population as a bonus.

Crime isnt a matter for the "justice" system, it requires a whole of goverment aproch focused around the health, community and education systems

 

And the rightwing "libertarian", the hater of governmental intrusion and arbitrary power, shows their stripes.

Re the issue: In the past, it did not work. Do you think human nature has changed radically since the days when flogging failed to deter crime?

The US Navy was one of the first to ban flogging of sailors. It's crime and mutiny rate immediately became, and have remained, among the lowest of any navy in the world.

The days of rum, sodomy, and the lash, were not days of low crime rates.

And Macao, next door, with similar attitudes toward punishment, does not. Japan's crime is low, Indonesia's is high. Canada's is low, Mexico's is high.

And if, as experience has long shown and wisdom long suggested, punishment and reform exclude each other, beatings and education interfere with each other, fear and defiance prevent the inculcation of wisdom and civility,

which will you choose?

 

What does having a violent parent or treating kids with care and respect, have to do with the fact that parents and children do not have and should not have equal power in their relationship to each other?

Being forced or not isn't the point. Kids are forced to do stuff all of the time. The point is will this endanger the child and Tapatio sauce in their mouth just isn't going to do that.

I thought being pushed into a cold pool, lake, or ocean was force. Or being shot with a super soaker or sprayed with the hose/sprinkler I hate it when people do that to me, but I would never in a million years charge them with anything unless they tried to drown me.

I can't speak for everyone else, but for me. Force and free choice are not the issue. Whether something is abuse or not is the issue. As I've mentioned before children are forced to do a lot of things they don't want to do. Sucks to be a kid, but that's life. If kids made all their own choices they'd be worse for wear. I didn't like wearing a seatbelt or brushing my teeth but my parents made me and it would make me so mad. Was it assualt? Perhaps according to your definition, yet I'm alive and well today with all of my teeth, I always wear my seatbelt in the car and have no ill will toward my parents. I now know that they only made me miserable because they loved me and I'm glad they did. My future children will get the same treatment because I want them to be happy and healthy like myself.