Is four hour sleep at a time is better than eight hours at a time ?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by plakhapate, Apr 28, 2006.

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  1. plakhapate Banned Banned

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    IS 4 HOURS SLEEP AT A TIME BETTER THAN 8 HOURS SLEEP AT A TIME ?

    Key words : Sleep Apnea, Health, Pranayam, Breathing Exercise, Quality Sleep

    It is well known that during sleep, oxygen concentration in blood decreases and concentration of Carbon Dioxide in blood increases with time since breathing is very slow.

    More than 18 millions Americanns and lot of people all around the world are suffering due to Sleep Apnea problem.

    This leads to several health problems such as diabetes, high B.P. etc.especially who do not do adequate breathing exercise(Pranayam).

    It has been observed that many Arabians sleep only 4 hours at late night and they sleep for 4 hours during daytime. They have less health problems due to Quality Sleep.

    Here the variation in Oxygen and Carbon Diaoxide concentration in blood is less. Hence less health problems.

    I personally do Pranayam twice a day to maintain proper Oxygen concentration in the blood.

    If due to some reasons I am unable to do Pranayam , next day I realise that I can not do Pranayam efficiently.

    By experience one can realise whether oxygen content in blood is decreased or not without using any tool for measurement.

    Please send your comments and share experience.

    P.J.LAKHAPATE
    plakhapate@rediffmail.com
     
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  3. pilpaX amateur-science.com Registered Senior Member

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  5. makeshift Registered Senior Member

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    Doesn't seem very natural. How are you going to get a normal amount of crucial REM if you cut your sleeping in two? That could possibly screw up your ability to have long-term memories.
     
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  7. Roman Banned Banned

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    There are 250 million Americans, and only 18 million have problems. Not very suggestive data, is it?

    There was a study where they let people sleep a few hours, then woke them up to solve problems. Within the first half hour of waking up, problem solving was about on par with that of a drunk.
     
  8. crispy Registered Member

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    I wonder if it is the amount of sleep or its timing according to social/professional needs. (Earlier than you want, later than you want etc...)
     
  9. valich Registered Senior Member

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  10. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    On weekdays I sleep 3-5 hours before work and 2-3 hours after work, and it sucks. Always tired... Messes with your diet too.
     
  11. Kaiser Stormhawk Registered Member

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    Just about three weeks ago, my cousin decided to try the 4-5 hour formula, and said that he'd much rather spend his life doing something worthwhile. He did it (rather laborously) for a week, then he started to drop off at 8:30 watching a movie on the couch.

    I personally prefer the 8 hour routine. Unless I have Geography/Physics/Civics/Economics period the next day. If so, I prefer 7 hours 15 minutes.

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  12. RockShox Registered Member

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    i sleep about 3-4 hours a day total. have for my entire adult life. i feel well rested. everybody has different ohysical requirements. and mental. there is plenty of time to sleep when you're dead.
     
  13. thedevilsreject Registered Senior Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    i sleep for about 5 hours and while i was tired at first after a while i got used to it and it was fine
     
  14. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    The space for bunks on a sub is very limited so the crew "hot bunks." For several hundred years it has been known that if a sailor is made to "stand watch" for more than 4 hours, he is not good at it. (Does not see ships on the horizon. In old days, might even fall out of the "crow nest.") I am told, that sailors get 4 hours on/ 4 hours off around the clock - some of their "on 4 hours" are free if there is no pressing needs.

    I did read, during my college days, a study supported by US Navy, that seem to show that one "sleep cycle" of 4 hours followed by interval of 4 hours duty and then followed by a second 4 hour sleep cycle resulted in better performance on duty than 8 hours of continuous sleep per day.

    I was sufficiently impressed by the study that I decided to try it. It just so happen that I could go to most of my classes and fit 8 "days" into the normal 7 day week cycle. I found that an extra day each week did help me carry my heavy load (30 credit hours, as I recall). I did this strange schedule for about 10 or 12 of my less than 24 hour days. I quit mainly because the rest of world was not on this more efficient cycle (Played hell with Saturday night social life and I had to cook my own dinners at everyone else's 4AM etc at least twice in my 8 day week- and that wasted time.)

    What follows is very sleep related, but not exactly on point,:

    I also stayed awake for about 90 hours, before going to college. I was living in the attic of an aunt’s house and working for radio WCHS as vacation replacement transmitter engineer (I may have been the youngest in the US to have the first class commercial FCC license that was required back then.)

    I pulled the 4PM to midnight shift, for "A" who was on vacation after getting up about 6AM as the attic was too hot to sleep well in. At 1AM next day I was getting pissed and tired. - Engineer "B" had not shown up at midnight to relieve me. No one had realized that at midnight his vacation started, so I was now on duty for "B" and pulled a 16 hour straight shift. When "B" shift ended at 8AM, I got on bus and arrived back at aunt's attic about 10AM and it was one of hottest days of the summer. - I tried to sleep but could not in that heat and I had a "second wind." After early dinner I set alarm for 10PM (I had to do B's midnight to 8 AM shift again) but even with full stomach sleeping in the attic at 105F was impossible, so I went back to the air condition restaurant, until time to catch the bus that went within walking distance of the transmitter. Fortunately, for me, B's schedule was 2 days on, 2days off (his "weekend") 3 days on and I did not need to work again for two days as his replacement. I got off B's shift at 8AM the second time, and later that day I realized that without ever intending to do it, I had been awake for at least 60 hours.

    I had read that sleep depravation cause hallucination and other strange aberrations and the attic was very hot - so I decided to see if I could make 100 hours without sleep, calling the chief engineer to say I was sick if need be.

    I was all alone (Aunt knew I worked odd hours and never check on me.) so I made a "terminate this game" rule and promised my self I would keep it. - I had to open the telephone book at random, copy 10 telephone numbers in a column on sheet of paper and carefully add them up three times, with paper folded so I could not see prior answers while adding. If none of the three results were the same: drink some whisky and go to bed. I no longer remember exactly when I quit and did not know exactly when I started (by 6AM I was sure) but I made it to approximately 90 hours before I could no longer add up ten big numbers correctly. I sleep some and was back at the station for B's next midnight to 8AM shift after his "weekend." I never had any hallucination, but I have always been interested in sleep since then.

    Rats deprived of sleep by mild electric shocks, will die before rats deprived of water so sleep is important, but No one knows why we must sleep. I do not believe the stories that some Indian holy man has not eaten in 14 years or never sleeps, etc. but do believe some normally involuntary things, like heart rate, can be controlled significantly by thought alone. (by thought alone. - I can do it by runing.)
     
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  15. Exhumed Self ******. Registered Senior Member

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    Is it 4 hours off 4 hours on infinitely or 4 off 4 on 4 off 12 on? The former results in total 12 hours on 12 off (less time awake) and the latter in 16 on 8 off (equal time awake), so how is it you had extra time?
     
  16. Exhumed Self ******. Registered Senior Member

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    I'm curious for these various sleep schedules how sleep stages change. The 2 hours awake 20 minutes asleep states it makes it pure REM sleep. That excludes the 'slow wave' sleep, which is critical for your health. I hear that slow wave and rem rotate ever 1.5 hours, so imo, 9 hours is good to have. I always feel good if I get 9.

    During slow wave sleep the brain releases growth hormone from the pituitary gland. It burns fat, grows/repairs muscle. If you are doing anything athletically you obviously need it. If you are hurt or sick, it is obviously important.
     
  17. domesticated om Interplanetary homesteader Valued Senior Member

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    I've experienced hallucinations due to irregular sleep.
    I'm not sure if everyone's brain would do the same as mine (I'm pretty sure it differs from person to person), but most was just unidentified stuff jumping out at me from the corners of my peripheral vision. An example - I could be sitting at my desk, and think I see a mouse running around my foot. I look down, and nothing would be there.
     
  18. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I had to make my awake periods fit my class times.*

    If in a normal week, you get 7x8 =56 hours sleep, I probably had designed my week to provide 11 periods of roughly 4 hour of sleep each, (44hours total), instead of only 7 periods of 8 hours sleep. The first sleep cycle is the most useful one, and I got 4 more of those than someone sleeping seven nights each week. I no longer remember the details - just illustrating idea here.

    In seven days there are 7x24=168 hours. If I slept 44 that leaves 126 hours to divide into the 11 awake periods, each of approximately 11.5 hours, but to accommodate my class schedule, social life, etc., some of my awake periods were longer (perhaps 20 hours) and some much shorter. For example, I might go to three consecutive hour -long classes, eat in the student union, and be back in bed for another sleep cycle only 5 hours after leaving the bed to go to those classes.

    Just a a normal schedule sometimes has more, sometimes less awake time in 24 hours, so did mine. But, because my sleeping was more efficient, I did sleep less than normal (for me) in the week total and this is where my "extra day" came from.
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    *As I recall, it was the year when I had a lot of labs, and some of them I could schedule at my convenience (For example, at Cornell in my time there as undergraduate, all engineering students had to make, in india ink, copies of drawings of an old (<1800?) lath's parts. We had two afternoon labs, but they did not care when you made your drawings, so I could work between 2AM until 8AM if I liked and never go to the regular lab time.) I was in a special 5 year program, which no longer exists. It satisfied all the engineering college and al the liberal arts college graduation requirements - a very heavy class load every year. - I forget total but it was somethink like 150 credit hours, mimium!
     
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  19. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    I've had sleep apnea quite a few times and it always happens just as I'm falling asleep. Never had it after many hours of sleeping. It doesn't make sense that cutting it in half would solve the problem.

    This whole stuff has no proof or logic whatsoever.

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  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I can not comment on sleep apnea except to note that yours were obviously brief (not fatal). How do you know they were less common when you were asleep?

    As far as support for the idea that the first sleep cycle is the most productive, that was well demostrated in the US navy study that got me to test the idea in the first palce. I do not remember the study well, but bet you can now find at least a dozen confirmations of its results - namely that if you must make due on less sleep than your body is inclinded to need, it is better (from the measurements of task perfomance in the awake hours) if you get only first sleep cycles and then go back to your task, instead two consecutive sleep cycles but only half as many.

    Edison did this. He rarely sleep for more than three hours at a time. It is also less scientifically established in the common belief that a "cat nap" will restore your performance.

    I will not debate the issue with you, more. I have learned, from several prior exchages (your with me and many others) that you hold to your view almost regardless of all evidence to the contrary. (Gold bricks are not an asset, Calculus is a limiting case, etc.)
     
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  21. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    If I would have had in the middle of my sleep, I would have either woken up or died...

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    Ah...! There is some proof and logic...

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    Would you sleep every three hours?
    I personally have some difficulty with that...

    Eh? What are you talking about?

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  22. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Do a little research. You will find that it is quite common with neither of these results. No one know for sure what is the mechanism that restore your breathing after a minute or so, but probably it has to do with the strange physiology of the blood vessels in the brain. Un like all others they expand if the concentration of CO2 is increased. The larger size permits more blood flow to the areas that are working hardest (producing more CO2). One more example of how clever the body is - it automatically and dynamically sends more blood to the parts of the brain that need more for current metabolic reasons.

    BTW you are not stimulated to breath to get oxygen - the urge to breath, awake or asleep, is to get rid of accumulating CO2*. The air you breath in has roughly 0.03% CO2, but the air you breath out has at least 10 times more - this change / signal is much easier for the body to note, and causes your next automatic breath. The very slight change /signal in the O2 content of the air exhaled is much harder to detect so the body does not get stimulated* to breath by lack of O2, even thought most people incorrectly believe this.

    Thus the reason most sleeping people's eposoids of apnea terminate by resumption of breathing without either dying or waking up is probably the same reason that you unconsciously take your next breath - Namely the increasing CO2 levels in the blood.
    ----------------------------------------
    *Two men at APL, where I worked, died because of this fact. They had not lifted the large steel bell jar in which a satellite was being tested by more than a foot off its base. (Lifting was lot of work with a pully system. - So they just crawled thru the one foot gap at the base.) The dry nitrgoen supply was still on and the atmospere inside slowly became almost 100% N2, but they were able to eliminate the CO2 and did not notice the absence of O2. No one notice them lying on the floor until they were long dead. They could have left at any time, but were breathing easy in the sense that they constantly got rid of the CO2.

    You know very well, unless you have a very defective memory, that for about 10 days against at least 8 people your argued that gold bricks were not an asset because they did not provide any income.

    If I did something so pig headed stuborn, I guess I would try to forget it also.

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  23. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Huuumm... I really don't know much about this subject...

    Well, I'm just one of those...

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    I have an episode every now and then (like a couple of times a year)...
    So... am I in danger of dying from it? Why do some people die from it?


    One thing that I've noticed about apnea is that it usually happens when I'm sleeping on my side, or even more so on my stomach. I remember that my parents used to put me to sleep on my side or stomach all the time. At those days, people believed that was better for babies. I remember having a lot of apnea episodes. I was still a baby, so I couldn't really tell them what was going on. But anyways... I'm guessing there is a connection between SIDS and apnea. Altough that is just an educated guess, I can clearly see the connection- and I have experienced it myself.


    So... do you think some people have more of a propensity to have apnea?

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    Well, I like taking a difficult stance in an argument.
    I still don't think the mere speculation in the increase of the value of an asset is a good investment. That's just pure speculation. Unless you can somehow determine whether the asset will gain in value or not. But anyways....
     
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