Is faith a reliable path to knowledge?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by James R, Jul 23, 2015.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,102
    When a post is addressed to me, I have right, nay the responsibility to respond.
    This is not your thread to begin with. So why don't you shhhhh, when I am actually making a point.

    I waited patiently for your point, but it did not seem forthcoming soon, so I took the liberty to respond during your hiatus. For all I know you hit a mental wall...

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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  3. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure why I have to provide evidence and you are somehow exempt.
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Generally, human (males) don't kill those who they have lots of sex with.


    How do you know it's a matriarchal society?

    Jan.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    It is the child of experience and environment. ☺️

    It is self-explanatory.

    I wasn't aware that I needed a "right" for any mental activity. Where do you get them from?

    CLAIM: Knowledge is acquired from the environment one is brought up in. All decisions are based on experience.

    DISGUISED CLAIM: Who may teach from his environment and EXPERIENCE.

    CLAIM: From observation of the environment and the believer's actions and deciding that the believer does not have the authority to make objective decisions, based on all of the above.


    How do u think you have the capacity to Know what you claim to know?

    I understand that pride lies at the root of vanity. Vanity is simply the way that particular pride manifests.
    But now that you mention it. What is sin? This should be relatively easy for you, seeing as you claim to know so much.

    JAN: "Above" is based on you environment and experience. What makes your experiement () [environment, experience] able to objectively know something that you do not have the capacity to know.

    Write4U : Yes.

    I'm happy for you. But what does that have to do with anything?

    So I don't currently have any knowledge? Boy! You are good. ☺️

    Jan.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,102
    I don't prejudge your capacity for learning as you expressly accused me of........difference!

    I am merely arguing that faith is not necessarily a reliable path to knowledge, with the caveat that most scripture contains some practical wisdom, which I have happily adopted..

    Check out the Skeptics annotated bible, it lists both .

    p.s. It also addresses the flaws and benefits of Mormonism and Islam.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,102
    You are correct, but I used the word vanity in context of the discussion. I am sure you will agree that vanity, while simply a way to describe a particular manifest pride, does not make it a lesser sin?
     
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,215
    I did no such thing. I was curious as to how you know things that are not within the capacity for humans to know.


    I don't think you know what it means to have faith, despite it's simplicity. I think you are too preoccupied with making sure what you see as faith in God, or religious faith, is not the same as your faith. Because you dogmatically believe that faith has two meanings.

    What does this have to do with the topic?

    Jan.
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Okay.
    So why is "vanity" a sin?

    Jan.
     
  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    It absolutely does have two meanings.
     
  13. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    What are they?

    Jan.
     
  14. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Faith is the surrender of the mind; it’s the surrender of reason, it’s the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It’s our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated.
    Christopher Hitchens, Hitch 22
     
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  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,102
    Read the bible, it's part of the sin of pride, no?
    Bible Hub.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,102
    Yes, let's do away with reason. Surrender our minds and "tithe' all our money for the greater glory of God! He always seems to need more of it.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,102
    After all, reason is not a required asset in gaining knowledge......

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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Spiritual awareness is self-explanatory?
    Wow, that's deep!
     
  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I assume you're being sarcastic. But didn't you like about my response?

    jan.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,102
    What I don't like about that response is that it is meaningless.

    A religious psychopath also can have deep self-awareness. He may believe that it is his holy duty is to kill every non-believer, or gays, or women who wear red dresses, or.........take your pick.

    IOW, self-awareness may result in non-explanatory actions. It has no particular moral connotation.

    Many animals are self-aware as has been tested and confirmed. But does that make them spiritual?
    Many animals also show very moral behavior (empathy), without any learned spirituality.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  21. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,188
    Jan,
    Your inability, as always, to demonstrate a non-fiction seems quite adequate.

    I quite understand and sympathize, that like most people, you would prefer not to recognize that you are a victim of propaganda. It is typical to deny what you likely suspect, to do otherwise would be an admission of foolishness and gullibility.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,215
    Not sure what you're trying to get across here, in relation to my response.
    My response , therefore still stands.

    It's not hard to see why someone who is without God, can make those assumptions without any knowledge. But do you have anything other than those, to offer?

    You "understand", do you?

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    Now that you've got that off your chest, care to respond to the topic of faith, and whether knowlegde can be derived from, or by it?

    jan.
     
  23. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,215
    That was his comprehension.
    You said there are ABSOLUTELY two meanings of faith. What are they?

    jan.
     

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