Is faith a reliable path to knowledge?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by James R, Jul 23, 2015.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    What if you can't?
    Should every single theist accept your way of thinking?

    Jan.
     
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Actually I was talking to Sarkus. I was quite impressed by his questioning of James. I'm not playing games as you seem to think.

    So what you're saying is that the only responses that should be taken seriously, are atheist types?

    Can you elaborate on what is meant by "Stupidforums"?

    Jan.
     
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  5. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    There's no bomb. Just making sure we're on the same page regarding science.

    My question is: Why is falsification necessary, when God is transcendental to nature?

    Falsification is for hypotheses and theories?

    Jan.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's important only if you are concerned that what you believe is true, i.e., can be confirmed empirically. How do you know god is transcendental to nature, apart from the definitions theists write?
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So we're back to proving God exists again.

    If God does exist, then God is transcendental to nature, because that is the description. If God doesn't exist then we have nothing to discuss.

    So back to my point: Why is falsification necessary, when God is transcendental to nature

    Jan.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I asked how you know, apart from the description? Descriptions aren't facts.
     
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    transcendental
    ˌtransɛnˈdɛnt(ə)l,ˌtrɑːnsɛnˈdɛnt(ə)l/
    adjective
    1. 1.
      relating to a spiritual realm.
      "the transcendental importance of each person's soul"

    spiritual
    ˈspɪrɪtʃʊəl,ˈspɪrɪtjʊəl/
    adjective
    1. 1.
      relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
      "I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"
      synonyms:non-material, inner, psychic, psychical, psychological;More

    2. 2.
      relating to religion or religious belief.
      "the country's spiritual leader"
      synonyms:religious, sacred, divine, holy, non-secular, church, churchly, ecclesiastic, devotional
      "spiritual music"
    noun
    1. 1.
      a religious song of a kind associated with black Christians of the southern US, and thought to derive from the combination of European hymns and African musical elements by black slaves.
    Google

    I would have thought Atheists are well aware of god being of the spirit world and hence not real

    As in real real

    No need to rely on Thesist definetions

    I am guessing you are still playing Ping Pong and like Mick Jagger

    Can't get no satisfaction

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  11. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, but there would be no point to prayer if god didn't have some influence on the natural world. In fact, how can anything be evil if only the spiritual realm matters? Who cares about the suffering of bodies?
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That does not answer my question. And from my perspective, in the absence of any evidence, proof, or logical argument why a god is necessary for the creation of anything, *no god" is the default position.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    You said it yourself.

    Claiming God is transcendental just means there IS nothing to discuss, and all scripture is reduced to stories of transcendental figures such as Mickey Mouse.

    Would you believe Mickey Mouse is God? If not, why not?
    Because Mickey Mouse is a transcendental figment of the imagination.
     
  14. river

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    To Egypt , the gods where the path to knowledge .
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I understand the abstractions we name gods and angels and demons, but they were metaphors (early definition) for naturally recurrent patterns in life and thereby revealing divine intervention. Wotan, Zeus, Athena are but a few. But time and time again it has been proven these gods were early terms of describing this the environment.

    Then some discovered the constellations above, some discovered the seasonal patterns, some discovered new or sacred animals, some discovered life in the oceans. And each environment had its own gods......for a long time.

    Later.....we asked, "are all gods real gods or just mathematical patterns of the gods of heaven

    Later,........ some asked the question ; is any god a real divine god or a pattern, a mathematical expression of nature.

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    In the future, ....perhaps the AI will see us as gods, then say ....naaahh...

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    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I get it. As far as you're aware, there is no evidence for God, and we both know you're not going to be convinced by anything I have to say about God.
    So what's the point in going down that road.

    I accept that God doesn't currently exist, as far as you're concerned. Can you accept that for me, God Is (or to simplify, God exists).

    Jan.
     
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Are you saying that falsification is important only if any hypothesis, or theory is true?

    For the purposes of this discussion, how I come to the realisation that God Is, is irrelevant. I am simply using general descriptions of God, so we can come to a better understanding. I am not asserting theism.

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    God's (gods)? Maybe.
    God? Scientific scrutiny, by itself, would be akin to entering a UFC tournament with zero arms and legs, and a tendency to fall asleep every eleven seconds.

    Proving God exists, is an atheist pursuit. I think it would be a waste of resources, and energy, for scientists to try and prove God's existence.

    Now you've added another element. Religion.

    The reality is that theist believe in God, and atheists don't. Atheists do not have to explain, or apologise for their position, which also means theists don't. Unless of course we try to convince the other that there position is wrong and ours is right.

    Now I'm not trying to convince you of anything, so I shouldn't have to prove, appologize, or show evidence, of my position, anymore than you do.

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I understand that. But it is from your perspective. But I see it differently from my perspective. Can you accept that?

    Maybe you regard Mickey Mouse as transcendental, but I don't. Mickey Mouse is an animated cartoon character, constructed by Walt Disney.

    I realise that this must be how God is, to you. A constructed character, and I accept that. But that's not how I comprehend God. Can you accept that, and move on?

    Jan.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Of course.
    Mickey Mouse has a spiritual life of its own. Ask any child what they think of Mickey Mouse. I bet they won't respond with "a nicely constructed cartoon character".
    I believe the concept of a god is more of a approximation than a construction. A symbolic representation of something unknown or possibly unknowable that's out there and makes things happen.

    But I want to know how you comprehend God and why you, as an intelligent person cannot explain what the properties of God are to you, so I can try to mirror that perspective and gain understanding and perhaps even empathy (seeing things from your perspective).

    How could we possibly move on, unless we know why we need to move on. Because agreement is impossible? And there you have the problem![/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I just did, and she said "it's okay" .

    But what do you mean by "spiritual life"?

    What if you can't or don't get to know how I comprehend God, don't or can't accept my explanation, or see it from my perspective? Does it mean your thinking is correct, and mine wrong?

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    By looking at the general descriptions, and taking it from there.

    Jan.
     
  23. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    There is a difference between "God", and a "god". While you may not respect that, it does help to make the distinction with me, to avoid unnecessary confusion.

    Jan.
     

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