Is ESP real?

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Magical Realist, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Michael 345 Bali in Nov closer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,227
    Personal I frequent various forums to expand my understanding of the Universe

    For years I have read books from Alice in Wonderland to the technical manuals of the radar units I serviced in the RAAF

    Never have I found any sensibility in any Woo Woo books (you all know the ones I mean). Parts of the radar manuals puzzle me still BUT when I followed the instructions I obtained the results as detailed in the manual

    There was never any disclaimer "individual results may vary"

    No twinge on my part - I truly understand my sensory inputs are only picking up history (even if that history is only micro micro micro mini fractions of a second ago). It's as close enough to reality as I am going to get and I happy with it

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    31,445
    birch:

    Your biographical details are kind of drifting off the supposed topic of the thread, I think. The thread topic, remember, is "Is ESP real?"

    I think that, by adding in "mystical" explanations and evil forces to your personal story, you are possibly making things more difficult for yourself to deal with than they need to be. I think that, if possible, letting go of the idea that evil supernatural external forces are responsible for things that have happened to you in the past might help you to put things in perspective better. (Note: I am not a psychologist or anything like that, so this is not professional advice.)

    My own personal belief, as I have told you before, is that human beings have great capacity to do bad things to one another. There is no need to invoke mystical forces, predestination, or evil supernatural powers to explain the bad behaviour of human beings. Often people do bad things to others in part because they have had bad things done to them in the past. This is no excuse, but it is an explanation that can help us understand.

    It is understandable that you would feel this way. However, it's very easy to put what you feel down to some kind of paranormal message from outside; it might also be a way of justifying the validity of that feeling to yourself, in that it's not your "fault" if you feel that way.

    There's no actual evidence that anybody lives more than once, or that there is any sort of past-life connection between people. It can be seductive to imagine that this does occur, but I think it's based more on a feeling and wishful thinking than on anything real.

    If you visit an occult "reader" of any kind, they will always tell you something - often the kind of thing you'd like to hear. This is especially true when you're paying them. But sometimes life is complicated. There aren't always easy answers to things. One reason I don't like spiritualists and the like - especially the ones who take people's money - is that they always have easy, superficial answers for things. That's not to say that they are always fraudulent or valueless. Some are well-intentioned and can provide a sympathetic ear and a kind of counselling. Unfortunately, the mumbo-jumbo that goes with that tends to obscure the real benefit.

    And how does she know this? Ask yourself.

    Was this before, or after you told her you felt like you were from someplace else? See, I'm wondering if she was just repeating back to you what you already wanted to hear.

    It's quite easy to make sense of stories like this after the event. You can rationalise all kinds of reasons why the story "fits", intuitively. People are great at making sense out of stuff that doesn't really fit.

    Really? You've always (e.g. even as a young child) had that sense about past lives etc.? I think it's far more likely that you read about past lives, or somebody told you about them, and the idea made some kind of sense to you.

    If that reading had been unremarkable, or didn't make sense in light of what happened later, do you think you would remember it quite so vividly?

    Out of interest, how many different tarot or other psychic "readings" have you had done in total?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    31,445
    (continued...)

    This sounds to me like this man from your dream has never appeared in real life. Is that right? The reader could draw on your description of him and simply make up just about any story about him to fit a certain narrative. I mean, you can make up anything about what is essentially a fictional or imaginary character.

    I'm not a big fan of the idea of good or evil souls (souls in general, actually). I think that people are just people. People aren't defined by some inherent nature, but by the choices they make and actions they take in their lives. I think the idea that you're born with a good or an evil soul takes away agency and responsibility. It makes excuses for a person's choices.

    This is what I mean about making things unnecessarily difficult by introducing mystical ideas. It's like you don't just have to worry about the effects of your actions in the real world, in this life, but you also have to worry about the effects of your actions in some "other plane" or on the "other side" (after death, or whatever). That's a large burden to put on yourself, and I think an unnecessary one. That's especially true if it turns out that there is no after-life or other side.

    This is real. These are real actions by a real person. This is your mother treating you badly. I don't see how it helps to add in the part about her not being your real mother, though. It's like an excuse you're making for her poor behaviour. Or perhaps it's a shield you're putting up to distance yourself from association with her. I think it would be better to accept her appalling behaviour for what it is, and to put it down to poor choices she made, rather than to the actions of paranormal, malevolent forces beyond her control.

    You strike me as somebody who is doing remarkably well, judging by what you have endured. I don't know what I would have done in a similar situation; I might not have been as strong as you are. I really wish you all the best, birch.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Michael 345 Bali in Nov closer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,227
    Not sure how much longer this thread can go - not really concerned - but surely there are enough members in the total forum - that at least 2 would be capable of testing ESP between themselves

    Find those 2 - ask them to demonstrate - post results

    Granted a positive or a negative result from 1 experiment would not be conclusive

    Think would be better than personal stories - dismissive of personal stories and very questionable YouTubies

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. river

    Messages:
    11,058
    ESP is an experience , for those that ignore the science .
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    31,445
    What do you mean?
     
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    see, you are working from a premise that this stuff is unreal so you are also making general assumptions. i did have strange experiences (and i am not the only one) even as a child and one that i remember around 6 years old was of a dream where i was in a space of different planes/doors (even in the dream i knew it represented different planes/dimensions/universes) before my incarnation. there was no literal door and there was nothing below me though i was standing on something (leaning on something too). i even took note of that mentally in the dream and wondered how. it was just open space and i could see stars all around me. that is a pretty remarkable dream (i consider it a message somehow and not just imagination) for a six year old to have. i already knew at a young age that there was more than one reality.

    i also knew intuitively this was not just a mere dream but my subconscious telling me something important. i had no chance to read on any subject, no one around me believed in such things as they were very much literalists or materialists, at least on a conscious level and would never allow me to speak of such things or i knew i could not share them.

    yes, he did and that is the only reason why this subject has compelled me to consider the paranormal and also question our understanding of time seriously! even more suspiciously, the dream i had above, in that i was a child even in the dream and saw a man walk past me to my right towards a fading light as i did not know which way to go but i naively followed a person i recognized (he i thought was a friend and he was an adult in this dream so he knew where he was going) and he went through the door diagonally to my left in front of me. he is the same person i saw in the dream years later in the movie theater and he was an actual person in this world. what i do know now on hindsight was that person was not my friend, even in the previous life or however i knew him but had been harboring ill intent and jealousy toward me and it was a mistake to follow him into this world nor did he have the same values. i knew he had something to do with my whole family situation because on a background/unseen level and part of the reason i was born into that family and he is one of them.

    so, that's three lucid dreams. one at six (multiple worlds), two at 9 (flash of light, then seeing what i had seen in my dream play out the next day), the one where i saw the same person in my dream and then see it in the flesh. the part that is contemptible to me is all of this is about unethical motives behind people's ambitions. then when i was in the military, i saw a vision (not a dream) of someone at the time i thought was just a passing thought but come to find out he was real. the first time was when i came into my room and saw someone sitting on the edge of my bed with his head cocked to the side and i told myself that's my imagination as i did not know this person in this vision, the second and last time was when i was sitting on my bed reading a magazine and the vision appeared again and he came up to me and sat on top of my bed on my legs as if it's an ethereal form and started chatting to me and i started to feel drained. these people are psychic vampires. people gain power in this world using perverted methods. i felt like he was trying to steal my soul/light. at the time i remember my heart palpitating as if something was being drained from me when i saw this vision of that person. what the secret is are these people fed on my 'light' energy for power. that was the motive. you don't think this shit is real. i do know it is. but the thing is i don't want to deal with any of this shit that people would do anything just for power, status or money which i find utterly petty at root. i never want to come back here ever again. on hindsight, now i should have gone to my right as i remember that guy turned to look at me and i could see a soft light inside him. he was going to a better place and that was the hint which i missed because "only" a literalists points of view like you.

    the most precious and important lesson i've learned in this life is to pay attention to what's beneath the surface, beyond titles and superficiality as well as facades. to NEVER make that mistake again in this life, world or whatever! and to never discount your intuition as unimportant but to consider it because it may be signaling something important like danger or people who have selfish or ill motives towards you. the truth is not in the literal surface superficial but what's behind it!! these are all connections i've finally been able to put together so far and i know what i fuking know is the truth, whether i can prove it or not at this point. so have your view of reality and i will have mine and what insights i've gathered. everyone is shown different things in life. no one will know it all but what we do find out is invaluable information.

    i did not ask for this. i am as lucid as the next person. what i have come to understand is that some are more connected to their subconscious mind than others, either by programming or choice. i think the subconscious is far more aware than our conscious ever was or is. this is my tentative hypothesis on the issue currently.

    for all the rest, there isn't anything to hash out because i already know it will just be the same line of the issue of literalist pov vs not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  11. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,813
    Just keep your hat on and nobody will notice.
     
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    i wonder if you avert or change the outcome of a vision of the future, if that means that you have just started a new timeline or stepped into an alternate parallel universe.

    if you get a glimpse of the future, is that really a glimpse of the future (especially when it's in detail or exact) or is that your subconscious projecting a possible outcome?

    if it's a projection of the future based on certain subconscious patterns noticed, then that would mean that there is cause and effect to everything and everything is connected so that one can project an event literally in every detail down to the minutia..

    or..

    the glimpse of the future is so because it has already taken place or will and you haven't arrived there yet on the timeline and if you for some reason, can avert or change the result, then does that outcome still happen or occurs but not in the timeline you just changed because you have created another timeline?
     
  13. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    887
    or is it simply you making decisions based on extrapolating information from sources you may or may not remember having?
    humans are pretty decent about spotting patterns, real or imagined.

    true, as long as you have all the information available (usually not the case) and you're able to build a probability based upon said information.
    in point of fact, this is done regularly not only in science, but when you drive, walk, make lunch, eat and many other mundane things.

    This topic reminds me of a quote that seems applicible, especially as the topic is easily tested:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Gawdzilla Sama likes this.
  14. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,813
    Oh, I pledge my undying lunch to you!
     
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  15. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    you know that is not the type of projection or esp we are discussing. this is way in the future or events which have nothing to do with your decision-making/action.

    what you explained is already known to everyone. you didn't need to bother. and no, that huge pic is not proof as this topic is about esp and psychokinesis which does not work in such a macro fashion. that's pretty obvious.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    because the obvious is news to you.
     
  17. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    887
    ah
    you missed the point, then?
    the "huge pic" was meant as a simple reminder that there are ways of testing things to insure you're making a decision and not just simply making up stuff to believe in

    wait... I think I even stated that!
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    i have to disagree. my experiences have shown me there is something else going on besides just conventional explanations t and it doesn't explain all of it. the analogy that the physical is merely a vessel is fitting. we battle or deal with principalities, not just flesh is true metaphorically.

    for instance, how my uncle lured me to his place saying he would help but he only did that to be condescending (which that seem understandable on the surface to the general public superficial interations of people) but it was more than that. i remember i would not be saying anything and he would just come out randomly and say things like 'you don't deserve anything, you deserve nothing' and if he sensed any iniative just based on my emotional state (not even saying anything, just from being around him so he could sense my emotions or anything) at the time, he would blurt out weird things like, ' you know everyone wants what you do too?!'

    but hold on, it wasn't just his ego, that was just part of the symptoms. his 'ego' has no problem with even more egotistical and power hungry people such as himself. so that was not really it.

    and if your simple explanation were true, then he would treat anyone badly just because he had been (which he wasn't anymore than anyone else which makes your explanation bogus on it's face) and he 'chose' who he wanted to treat badly. his wife was similar peas in a pod with him too. she was a very sneaky, nosy and dishonest person opening my mail etc for some odd reason.

    this is not behavior that he would exhibit in front of others nor would he admit to such a thing because it would be considered 'irrational'. this means people are more than or different than what the public facade says people are.

    the thing about it is there is more than a simple explanation as i've noticed repeatedly that good people treat everyone well or with respect but bad people only treat bad people with respect while they hate good people. i could 'sense' he disliked me for my good qualities and my inner light, not my bad ones. why would he attack the best or good qualities, rather than traits that are trouble to me? because he further wanted to diminish or demean them. that was his motive. bad people only respect those who either excuse their depravity/immorality or who indulge in it themselves and don't care how it hurts others not of their kind (not publicly, of course). but he is not alone in being scum on a soul level, evidently this is common.

    your logic sounds right but it's not reality because even good people who have been abused do not want to diminish good when they come across it, no matter what their situation is or what people have done to them. why? who you really are and who you connect with is based on inner identification.

    pay attention: on the contrary, it is like running into a kindred soul and they will value, cherish and treasure those good qualities they see or detect, not want to degrade it.

    people know on some unseen level who are their own kind and whose side of the 'real' (not public) they are really on in this life.

    i've seen this pattern many times over in life from various people and their interactions besides my own life.

    there is such a thing as true evil and true good on a very basic character level of what constitutes a person.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  19. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,813
    Congratulations on confirming your confirmation bias.
     
  20. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    unfortunately or fortunately, i am an excellent judge of character. nope, he is scum and it's a choice he makes to be since that's what he defends and so is his wife. not an opinion, just a fact.

    why am i always right? lol.
     
  21. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    one peculiar pattern i learned in all my years that goes deeper than personality types is some aspect that ties/relates people together in some characteristic way that goes beyond race, gender, age, country, and culture is something much deeper under the skin. i don't know about now but i do remember back a few decades ago that these types of people dominated society. it was like a breed and there was just something, something genuinely lacking in humanity and a general cruelty and insensitivity about them but they definitely were the majority. this is why i find it a paradox and suspicious when people do not notice such things at the time. because that means you are one of them.

    i just remember the world being such a cold and fake place even worse than today and without fail, not just me but for some odd reason the most sensitive and good souls were always being abused. it really seemed as if the people dominating the world were just demons in human bodies.

    the best analogy is conservative vs liberal but that's not completely accurate because it's a generalization, but it's very similar to that but for the sake of analogy it was as if 'conservatives' were the majority and it seemed as they were barely human or subhuman and if you were revealed to be human, they would attack you. the freaky part was it was as if you had to hide the very best of you at almost all times and in all social situations. what does that say about society? scary. it's like your light was constantly being attacked or smothered or target of envy or hatred or disdain or oppression. sometimes, even scarier, when you weren't showing it, just others sensing it. it seemed that to be accepted you either had to be un-evolved (dimmer soul, not necessarily evil) or evil on the inside to be accepted or considered acceptable in society.
    and if you were a person who really, really, really had a very good soul underneath, you were really going to be bullied or ostracized partly because you wouldn't be understood. it really was like these beings (underneath the human meat suit) would not accept or would oppress if they could not taint other souls to be like them, maybe for ego purposes or anger, i don't know but it seemed to be that way.

    anyways, the likes of my family blended into this society easily. very easily. i cannot understate that fact. it's like there was an obnoxiousness that they knew they were the majority. there is just something about it. it's like they are of the same species or breed of animal. like these people are the same nature intrinsically on some level.

    the most bizarre part was as if finding or meeting a 'real' soul was often unusual back then, even more than today

    it was the strangest things i was noticing about society as if there was some pervading evil power behind it and it was giving power to his minions to take over and weed out the good ones or just use them or oppress them or were supposed to serve them. literally, as if good was supposed to serve scum and they were supposed to rule over you. these minions, again had nothing to do with socioeconomic level, education, race, age, etc. it was about their consciousness/nature that united them as similar, as if they were born that way. as if the demiurge had incarnated his own evil or depraved soul offspring through a majority civilization.

    i want to make clear they 'looked' like human beings in whatever job, profession or other leading their normal life with others of their kind (the majority).

    it's like that movie, 'they live'. now, for those of light/ higher evolved souls aren't as oppressed as before but it sure seemed to be a case where it was like finding a needle in a haystack or a light in a sea of (unseen) darkness to know there was people of truly good souls. it did seem as if it was more rare back then.

    it's just very interesting to me because people often outwardly focus on the physical or superficial traits as well as maybe iq etc to describe or know people but i've found that there is something else going on. my intuition knew it.

    people think terms like lightworker don't represent anything real but it does.
    and it's not true that all souls are equal anymore than everyone has the same iq. some souls are of better or higher quality than others. in a world like this, this type of quality would be attacked more than say someone who has a very high iq. this is because it's a physically dominated universe and a more qualitative trait is often viewed as not real or tangible, which is one of the reasons why it can be attacked and vulnerable as no one is acknowledging it's even existence.

    well, let's just say the ones attacking, abusing or scarring or raping another's soul do know it's existence on an instinctive level if not consciously so and the victim sure knows it's effects but society as a whole are not acknowledging it on a conscious level that these things are real phenomenons or dynamics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  22. birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    there does seem to be an underlying pattern that there might be a power behind all this machination. some call it god, some call it satan, some call it a simulation etc.

    the pattern noticed though is it seems suspiciously that evil or the depraved always really runs the show or wins out on a basic fundamental level but it also needs good people here on one level to benefit their lives but only as long as they remain naive or blind to it. but not everyone is welcome here, especially the good ones that do have a clue or especially if they know, they will really be in trouble and will almost have zero support because the bad people are really going to target them and they aren't going to get support from good people who are mostly naive to it. that's what i've noticed as a pattern.

    this is one of the reasons the gnostics (based on observations) came up with their philosophy/tangent on religion and called the power behind the scenes of this universe or domain the demiurge.

    how you know something is off about this place and most of the so-called 'people' is that when you or anyone do have a moment to be sane or mention what should be sane, it's mysteriously and oddly dismissed or not considered up for consideration in this world, almost repeatedly.

    there is definitely something off about this world or universe. almost as it it's purposely trying to either avoid the truth or doing something it shouldn't be doing or operating in a way that it shouldn't be either.



    what he describes is an uncanny mirror of this universe, the world and society. i include universe simply because even though it looks kind of beautiful in it's vastness, it's kind of scary how illusionary that actually is since the laws of this universe produce very evil and depraved things and the entire system is predatorial wherever life exists.

    notice his description of the demiurge as being the king of this domain and it coincides/mirrors almost perfectly with the way society is. compare that with his description of the real or 'true' god or consciousness as he puts it, and it's described as not patrirarchal or rough as the demiurge is but neither feminine but softer and kinder.

    i had a growing suspicion over time and years that there was no way a good power could be responsible for this type of life. he describes him as brassy, egotistical, patriarchal and sees this world as a chessboard where his main aim is to not let good completely gain power but he knows he needs good to take care of evil as well. that's really what it's about.

    the most telling part is his false ego identification and could be construed as manipulative and deceitful with the fact that 'good' souls also line up to enter this experience because they are curious as if that means he is right or doing a good job. but in my perspective, that's just naivety on the part of those so-called good souls or they came here on some mission to help fix what this evil shit power won't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,314
    I hit the reply button back a few pages to offer support to Birch in the face of such a typical sciforums barrage of credibility attacks but see that she has managed quite well on her own.

    >>subscribed

    In all my travels and experiences I do not believe in evil. Evil being a part of a dual-ist system when in fact a singular poled system of belief is warranted.
    That what is perceived as evil is just evolution of the collective ego doing what it has to do...
    That a God as suggested by so many texts is non-existent or yet to be.. ( hence the evolution )
     

Share This Page