Is breastfeeding obscene?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by ElectricFetus, Jun 23, 2009.

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Is breastfeeding in public obscene?

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    9.3%
  2. No

    49 vote(s)
    90.7%
  1. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sorry...but I'm still chuckling about the fact that you actually deem the similarity between urine and milk, i.e. they're both bodily fluids and what not, as relevant to this issue.
     
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  3. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, what next?

    Is someone going to declare that eating in public is wrong because it's akin to shitting?
     
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  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I was not talking about urine and milk, again strawman.

    tell me now, does urinating and breastfeeding involve the usage of organs that many in the public find offensive to observe? That is my argument, that is what you need to make a counter argument to if you so want to counter, talking about eating shit is no relevant, is a fallacy, ad failure on your part to produce a proper counter argument.
     
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  7. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, lemme reiterate that: I'm sorry...but I'm still chuckling about the fact that you actually deem the similarity between both bodily functions, i.e. they're both about excreting bodily fluids and what not, as relevant to this issue.

    If so, I find it quite relevant to distinguish the difference between the usage of each bodily fluid, or no? One is waste and the other isn't. One is a health hazard and one is actually improving a little human's immunity.

    I don't know many in the "public" who'd consider seeing breasts as offensive. I've actually asked a few about this issue, and most admitted that they don't care especially when knowing that most women are quite discreet about it and they are actually capable to see the differences in innocence between showing your boob because of trying to evoke lust in people and feeding your baby and when I subjected them to the challenge that people have been posing on here, i.e. peeing,shitting = breastfeeding, they were quite surprised as it never came to their mind that there are people who actually see a similarity between said actions and even less did they agree with you that you can put a penis, vagina on the same level as breasts.
     
  8. Liebling Doesn't Need to be Spoonfed. Valued Senior Member

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    1,532
    Lol, what if people are eating bull penis? What about sushi off a naked woman? What if they are actually eating human flesh? You are the one making absurd statements about what is obscene. Don't you think there are a lot of vegetarians who consider eating meat obscene? Maybe you should look up what the word obscene actually means before you try using it in a sentence again.

    I was talking to you. How can you correlate breastfeeding and urinating, but not eating and breastfeeding (since babies breastfeed to eat)? You can't understand that your inability to see eating the same as your asinine reasoning about urinating and breastfeeding is a little... I dunno. Unbelievable. I think that you are just ignoring very valid points so you can retain your belief instead of looking at it any other way. Willful ignorance, it's usually called.

    You make all these strawman arguments and accuse others of doing it, but you never can actually debate what you are say, you just repeat the exact same completely illogical garbage you've been going on about since your first post. Perhaps you should take a course in biology so you can understand human functions of the body, and then come back and try again, hmm?
     
  9. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, Liebs, common sense has no place here. Welcome to Bizarro Forums.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    The reasoning for why they find it offensive has nothing to do with one being waste and the other being food. Once again you managed to go from a point of some relevance (excreting of fluids, though not specifying the vulgar nature of the orifice) to a issue of no relevance, the nature of the fluid. If the fluid type was the issue for their offense then of course they would not find breastfeeding offensive.

    I don't care what your friends think, many people in the public find it offensive, many places still have laws against breastfeeding in public, your going to deny this too, why don't you convince me the sky is red while your at it?
     
  11. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    1,538
    Many places have laws against it? Okay, please, give me some proof. Also while you're at it, prove me that many people in the public find it offensive, vulgar and obscene.

    On a side note: I give up. I'll leave this to someone else who's more willing to waste their time on your stupefying arguments. Because obviously peeing and shitting in public places is VERY relevant when it comes to the subject "why people find breastfeeding obscene". And sure as Hell the nipples and boobs are just as vulgar as the penis, anus and the vagina. And because the nature of the fluid is completely irrelevant because nobody f*cking cares that one smells, is a health hazard, while the other is actually useful. All I can say, those who find breastfeeding offensive and obscene have issues. Serious issues.
     
  12. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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  13. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Hahaha. I hate that kid.
     
  14. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    Bah, I ended up deleting it because it might have been inappropriate for some folks out there D:
     
  15. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    2,361
    It's like breastfeeding or taking a dump.
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    35,891
    You're not really making much sense on this one

    That your point finds it irrelevant suggests that you're not actually looking to discuss the issue, but rather that you're trying to tailor the discussion so you can pat yourself on the back for "winning" an argument.

    You're partaking in a form of argument that I call tilting windmills. That is, you're setting up your own fallacious demon to slay. Quite obviously, from the outset, most people find your comparison of breastfeeding and urination absurd because it is so simplistic.

    Obscenity is not purely a visual concern. And no, I don't just mean that there are sounds that some people find obscene, or even smells. But the sense of obscenity arises from one's personal context. There are plenty of people who would have no problem with people walking around naked who would find something obscene, or at least disgusting, about those same naked people randomly voiding their waste on the street. It is because of these factors that your argument finds irrelevant that people attach negative connotations to public urination.

    Which is also why the poll result is so lopsided. I have yet to encounter, in my life, an argument explaining the obscenity of breastfeeding that does not come back to internal sexual conflicts and the eye of the beholder. Those who find breastfeeding obscene somehow object to the notion of even the slightest exposure of the breast in public. In other words, they reject the natural utility in favor of the psychosexual construction in order to empower their objection. It suggests, in the case of the philistines against breastfeeding, that the perversion is in their own minds.

    On a personal note, I don't recall you being so extreme and obstinate about things in your history at Sciforums. So what is the underlying issue here? It really does seem that you're peeved that nobody's taking the bait on this one, and I just don't get why that irks you so.
     
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    7 states do not have laws protecting breast feeding and only 28 states have breastfeeding except from public indecency laws.
    http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/BreastfeedingLaws/tabid/14389/Default.aspx

    A group of researchers from the University of Adelaide in Australia printed the finding of their survey in the Journal of Human Lactation in June, 1999.

    The researchers surveyed nearly 100 restaurant and shopping center managers, asking them about breastfeeding in their facilities. Only one third of the restaurant managers and less than half (48 percent) of the shopping center managers said that mothers can breastfeed anywhere in their facilities regardless of what other customers might say.

    http://www.breastfeeding.com/advocacy/advocacy_bfinpublic.html

    The survey-of more than 3400 people in Adelaide's northern suburbs-shows that 83% of the community believes bottle feeding in public places is a more acceptable practice than breastfeeding.
    http://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news49.html

    simple google search on "public breastfeeding survey" can answer your question.

    Again all issues of irrelevance to why they find it offensive, as long as they see a boob or hear the sound of baby sucking they are offended. I'm glad you accepted my argument.

    Well certainly they have issue, I would not say serious, but as I have stated before I have nothing against breastfeeding in public so if your anger is directed your doing so unfairly.
     
  18. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    The discussion was tailor to begin with.

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    You're partaking in a form of argument that I call tilting windmills. That is, you're setting up your own fallacious demon to slay. Quite obviously, from the outset, most people find your comparison of breastfeeding and urination absurd because it is so simplistic.

    Certainly there are some people who do, but I figure those aren't the ones complaining about breastfeeding, and I figure the ones complain about breastfeeding also complain about urinating for the same reason. The thread was set up such to get people toe explain why they would allow breastfeeding and not x,y and z, unfortunately few want to state such reasoning and just want to be argumentative.

    Certianly but most social norms are in "the mind" to begin with.

    As I have stated before I have nothing against public breastfeeding, I just want people to state why they are for and against it, and I presented a logic problem for them to solve which few try to rather instead attacked me, misunderstood my position and generally got angry.
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    22,985
    That is the norm? Women do breastfeed in public because there is rarely anywhere suitable to do so in private when out and about. When the choice is between sitting in a toilet (yes, many parents rooms are actually an open area off the toilet) or on a bench in a public area, most mothers would choose to not feed their children in the toilet.

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    I need to ask. Why do you have this compulsion to pee in a public area? Why must your urinal be in a public area?

    The breast is not exposed. The baby's head tends to cover or shield the breast from view, not to mention that the greater majority of women have special shirts and drapes, not to mention slings that ensures no one is able to see or even know half the time, that the child is being breastfed.

    And you're still not getting it. Public urination and defacation is illegal because of the health risk and because people don't want to have to sit there and eat, look up and see someone taking a dump or a wizz a few metres away from them. I shall assume that your obsession with this, that your toilet is in the middle of your living room? Because if your wife is allowed to sit there and feed your child in your living room, you should be allowed to piss and shit in said living room as well! People are also offended by people spitting in public. In fact, in some places, it is illegal. Does that mean that where people are allowed to spit in public, you should be allowed to piss and shit in public as well?

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    Some people are also offended by obese people. Should we ban them from society as well? ... "By George, if that fatty is allowed to sit and eat an ice-cream, I should be allowed to wave my wang around in public and spurt my piss against a wall!"

    Again, there is zero reasoning behind your argument.

    Two words. Mammary Glands. Look it up.

    The only thing in common is that it is a fluid that comes from the human body, one solely from the female's body. Aside from that, they are not deemed to be "common" at all. Tell me, do you consider your snot to have something in common with your tears? How about when you pick your nose, is that the same as you shit? Would you eat both?

    Refer to above.

    No. That was my admission that you are too weird to be believed.
     
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    35,891
    Slings and arrows, inconveniences, and being human ('round the mulberry bush)

    Now that's the Fetus I've come to know and love. I would suggest that your error on this occasion is the absurdity of the proposition. People are hesitant, to say the least, to validate such an absurd thesis. This would explain the forceful pushback you've encountered. For instance, having actually looked at the Facebook petition you referred in your opening post, I had a moment of puzzlement, having not paid a whole lot of attention to the subsequent responses, when reading through some of your later posts. So I just shrugged and went forward with what I had to work with.

    Having reviewed the most part of the thread, however, my unsolicited advice would be to chuckle your way through the slings and arrows. I, too, have tried in the past to play a longer hand, but performance art beyond its most basic pretenses generally doesn't play here. To the one, this kind of environment does not allow for the necessary subtlety; to wit, were we doing this face to face, there would be certain obvious cues about your posture and expression that would communicate the degree and nature of the pretense. I'm not sure that even with unlimited images allowed in the posts—e.g., however many emoticons you can cram into it—we could manage the necessary subtlety. To the other, though, some people are simply going to miss the point no matter what you do. Flip a coin, I guess; I haven't taken the time to sort out who falls into which category and to what degree in this thread.

    And just watch. Some are going to miss these couple of posts between us and carry on as if you hadn't just shown your hand. It can certainly be maddening, but on those occasions, it is best, I think, to relish the slings and arrows.

    Or so says me.
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Well I certainly don't see the 'slings and arrows' of a brave new world as equivalent to my puny troubles but your reply does makes for entertainment on an esoteric level. But to be truly honest I enjoy playing the devils advocate and siphoning out who can deconstruct my arguments with logic and reason from those that can't maintain composure when presented with an emotionally loaded argument, though I was surprised with the outcome it seemed many members were personally offended that perhaps the idea of their lactation being compared to urine was to much for them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  22. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    So, the first link says that 43 States have laws with language specifically allowing women to breastfeed in any public or private location. What does that say? And how many States does the US have again? For the record, in spite of this link speaking in favour of me I don't consider it as the real deal since the USA certainly doesn't represent the whole world's opinion.

    Coming to the other two links, they refer to statistics and surveys that are 10 years old or so. I'm sorry, but times change and these reports certainly don't reflect the current state of the general public's opinion on this matter. Then there's the ridiculous numbers of people they've used for their surveys. 3400 people from Adelaide from 10 years ago have the say in what should be allowed in public or not?

    In fact, all three links, in spite of two being outdated and not very reliable imply that breastfeeding in public places is being supported even by politicians.
    So it turns out that most complaints about breastfeeding are unjustified and have no legal grounds and could be classified as harassment. Thank you very much for this info. I'll treasure it. And I'll always remember how in the end you've shot your own goal.

    PS: I was actually never angry. I just thought that your comparison was absurd. But I apologize if I came off as "too aggressive".

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    My argument was that "many" places outlaw breast feeding, 3 or more places validates my argument, 7 states is certainly enough.

    I seriously doubt public opinion could have change so much 10 years, even if it flip around it would still validate by argument that "many" people are offended: I never said majority or everyone. 3400 is a good sample size, though limited to the area (so the result can only be spoken of that place.)

    I and support this, but that does not mean there are not those that are offended by it.

    that was never my goal, I proved that "many" places and peoples are offended, but I'm glade your pleased by the obvious fact they are a minority.

    I may have not been speaking, but clearly several were irritated enough to begin insulting me.
     

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