# Is basic income smarter concept than a minimum wage?

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Plazma Inferno!, Apr 4, 2016.

1. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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joe---- is your pathetic nonsense, all??

3. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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Well, that's kind of the point, raising wages will have consequences. I don't think anyone doubts that, the question is what will those consequences be? Some people (i.e. progressives think the consequences will be good. So called "conservatives" think the consequences will be bad. The real answer, as has been previously pointed out, is it depends. But you do have a good point, and that point has been previously discussed in this thread. Businesses operating on thin margins in labor intensive industries with little ability to affect pricing (e.g. restaurants) would be adversely affected by a mandatory wage increase.

As previously pointed out in this thread, that's why the best solution is an expansion of the earned income tax credit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

I don't recall anyone making that assertion. Business isn't like government. It's a mistake so called conservatives too often make when it suits their ideological objectives. But to correct a few points, businesses can and do run "massive debts". Some industries are built on "massive debt". But they cannot print money and unlike the federal government, they can go bankrupt.

Well here is a few of the problems with that, it would be massively disruptive and expensive. Obviously, you have never been a manger. If you had, you would know that hiring people is very expensive. New hires don't walk in the door knowing how to do the work. Someone has to teach them. Firing people is expensive too. All these government workers you want to fire will need to be retrained too. And then there is the matter of skills and abilities. Many, if not most, government jobs require some skills.

And then there are the numbers, there are about 3.3 million minimum wager workers. There are about 4 million federal employees of which about 1.5 million are uniformed military personnel. So that means, out of those 3.3 million minimum wage earners you would only give 500,000 of them government jobs every year. So some people would have to wait 7 years to get a government job for which they may or may not be qualified to do. Minimum wager earners can't tell their grocer or landlord to wait 7 or 8 years for payment.

You solution is a very simple solution to a complex problem. Simple solutions, while popular with and dearly loved by so called "base conservatives" do not work in the real world. But I commend your for recognizing the problem and offering a solution, even though the solution is deeply flawed.

The best solution as previously discussed is to expand the earned income tax credit. It doesn't disrupt government, and it doesn't disrupt industry. Government and private industry should continue to hire the best qualified person for the job. Hiring should be based on skill sets and employer needs and not by government fiat.

If there are performance problems in the federal or any other government work force, and I'm sure there are, they should be addressed. You don't need to summarily and arbitrarily dismiss an eighth of the workforce just for the hell of it. I worked for one of the nation's largest corporations during the 90's where we arbitrarily laid off large portions of the workforce each and every year. There were after affects and they were severe. So while for some people it's easy to fire people, it's quite another to do it. And it does adversely affect the organization long after the targeted people have been dismissed.

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7. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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are you retarded?

8. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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You should know by now all the ad hominem in the world isn't going to save you. Answer Bowser's question.

CARRY ON

9. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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ahh- i then assume that, that is a yes.

10. ### BowserRight Here, Right NowValued Senior Member

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I've actually looked nationally since I'm nearing retirement. It doesn't look very promising. So far, Panama City in Florida was the one that seemed a possibility.

11. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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oh this is so fucking rich. really the guy attacking other people over their supposed lack of knowledge in business and economics is asking why everyone can't be a millionare. seriously how didn't you manage to get your series 7 if your that ignorant. do you even understand how economics works?

12. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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FDR would disagree with you. and he would know something of The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938

13. ### pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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are you? maybe maybe not but your certainly not smart nor in any position to lecture anyone on economics or business

14. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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it would help if you did not simply attempt to manipulate my statement, that or that you simply cannot comprehend my comment. i also noticed that you could not answer that question i-ether.-- " everyone can't be a millionaire. "-- why not ? i know why you cannot answer this question-- it is simply because, like you said, economics-- basically economics cannot withstand this, as you are whining for the hampering of it, simply, by confirming that lower wages are needed for economics, so hence, the unskilled need that low wage, since " not everyone can be a millionaire ", correct?

(shrugs)

Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
15. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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well, i would suggest actually reading that act--then you might not pretend that you actually have a clue-- i mean your headline already shows that you do not-- overall

carry on

16. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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comical--according to whom though?-- you?--that is twice as comical.

pjdude1219-- nice attempt though.

Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
17. ### BowserRight Here, Right NowValued Senior Member

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I don't know. If I had to pay a couple bucks more for my McDonald's Burger so the guy behind the counter could move out of his parent's basement, I would. I mean, I'm a capitalist, but I also recognize that some socialist ideas are good too.

18. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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I prefer to just avoid McDonald's entirely. They have a history of not treating their employees well. If fast food is your thing, Chipotle and In-and-Out both have very good track records for speed of promotion, promotion from within and manager pay.

19. ### BowserRight Here, Right NowValued Senior Member

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The point is that I would pay a bit more so others could have the basics of life. Again, I lived on minimum wage for several years. It was once doable. I just think that it hasn't kept up with inflation. When I was young, I shared a house with my girlfriend, purchased a new base model truck w/insurance, purchased smokes, and had plenty to eat. I also had pocket change for the occasional breakfast out. Doing the same would be impossible now. I really feel badly for young people these days.

20. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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Don't feed the trolls PJ. It's not possible to have a even a semi intelligent conversation with a troll. Krash is probably a 12 or 14 year old playing with his smart phone.

21. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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yes-yes-- now we are conversing-- i like this Bowser-- you can see things that these so-called business intellects are not.

22. ### krash661[MK6] transitioning scifi to realityValued Senior Member

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It has, for the most part. The minimum wage is much higher today (in adjusted dollars) than it was from 1940-1965. From 1965-1980 it rose to a bit higher than it is now (about $8 compared to$7.25) Then from 1980 to 2010 it was lower than it is now (about \$6,50 adjusted)