Is basic income smarter concept than a minimum wage?

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Plazma Inferno!, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Well certainly sharing expenses makes a difference. That's how most get by. That's how I managed years back, and still do today. I don't believe people expect riches on minimum wage, yet they want to have some form of independence. It costs a fortune to live these days.
     
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  3. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Why wouldn't we want a livable wage for everyone?
     
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  5. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

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    Just a point of note: in the UK it was initially aimed at being a livable income - the bare minimum - although they feared the impact of a sudden high rate so it was initially below the livable level, and has never really gotten to where it was intended.
    The current government has just introduced an upgrade to it: the National Living Wage, which will see the minimum rise by c.40% over the next 4 or 5 years - so that if someone works a full week on minimum wage then they will be deemed to have earnt sufficient for the basic standard of living.
    The personal tax allowance will also be set at this level, so those on the NLW will effectively be exempt from income tax.

    Clearly there are differences to the US.
    Just thought I'd highlight the difference.

    Now... carry on.

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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, again, that depends where you live. In some places it costs a fortune. In some places it's pretty inexpensive.
     
  8. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    ahh-yes-yes-- avoid the question that you do not WANT to answer, and then mask it with another question-- how typical.

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    (shakes head).
    and also, there are livable wages, some just need to evolve to it.
     
  9. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    well that is nice and all, except that is in the u.k and look how you are basically saying it failed, just like it has in the USA.
    simply look at that wiki thing-y i posted.
    again, i know this is just my saga, but i have experience with all aspects of this. i was poor-- i whined-- i then realized it was up to me too do something about it--so i did what the Nike commercial says : " just do it "-- and now i am wealthy--see the example i am attempting to set?
     
  10. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    i also find it amusing that some are offended or have some personal issues with my " carry on " and head shakes. that in essence, speaks volumes.
     
  11. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    this may appear irrelevant but:
    " " Humans are too inquisitive not to want to know. You seem to find no tranquility in anything. You struggle against the inevitable. You thrive on conflict. You are selfish, yet you value loyalty. You are rash, quick to judge, slow to change. It's amazing you've survived. Be that as it may, as species, we have no common ground. You are too aggressive. Too hostile. Too militant. " "
     
  12. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not saying it failed - it's a work in progress as to whether it improves the lot of the country.
    It encouraged many people into work, especially as it was coupled - and is being coupled - with a reduction in other benefits so that choosing to not work when able should really no longer be a viable option (for those without independent means of supporting themselves).
    In the UK we have a habit of our Labour governments making it far too easy for people to sit around doing nothing.
    They tax those that work so they can support those that don't want to.
    I'm okay with supporting those that can't work (although we make it too easy to cheat the system) though but if they're going to give handouts I'd rather the recipient worked for it.
    Hence I'm in favour of minimum wage over a basic income.
    It's a solid example.
     
  13. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    simply look at that wiki thing-y i posted.
     
  14. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    " (for those without independent means of supporting themselves). "--
    why is that?
     
  15. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    i actually apologize to you since i just realized what you are saying exactly.. i get it.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    That's very funny coming from you, given your history of refusing to answer questions posed to you.

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    How about answering the question Bowser posed to you?
     
  17. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    is it actually " given your history of refusing to answer questions " or is it simply that these so-called intellects(which you are for sure part of), cannot comprehend true intellect as they pretend(again, which you are for sure part of)?
    why not clarify the question that you believe that i did not answer?--then we can progress.
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL....

    If you need clarification in order to answer questions, then you should express your confusion so it can be explained to you. This is Bowser's question, "Why wouldn't we want a livable wage for everyone?. So what is it about Bower's question that confuses you?
     
  19. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    i am sure

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    (shakes head)
    it appears that this little piece of words was over looked: " that you believe that i did not answer? "--

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    (shrugs)
    i guess you cannot simply recognize an answer--and yet, you believe that you are some sort of intellect--with your so-called business degree, correct?
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Oh...

    Bowser's Question: "Why wouldn't we want a livable wage for everyone?"

    Your Response:

    "ahh-yes-yes-- avoid the question that you do not WANT to answer, and then mask it with another question-- how typical.

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    (shakes head).
    and also, there are livable wages, some just need to evolve to it."

    Now, where in your response to Bowser is an answer to his question? Bowser asked you a very simple question, a question you have avoided answering.

    And after your avoidance of Bowser's question was pointed out to you, you responded with another question, "why not clarify the question that you believe that i did not answer?--then we can progress."

    What you are doing, is what you always do, obfuscating in an attempt to mask your ignorance.

    I don't have go guess. You have been and continue to be very dishonest. And you attempt to mask your ignorance and dishonesty with ad hominem and a host of illogical arguments and obfuscation. It's what you do.

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    carry on.

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  21. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    -- exactly--you simply do not comprehend the whole entire conversation-- should i be held accountable for your pretending mentality?

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    which is odd

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    (shrugs)
     
  22. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The problem with raising the minimum wage is the added cost will have consequences. Even at the current minimum wage, an owner has to calculate their per employee costs and revenues. From this they define the size of their work force. If wages go up and costs exceed revenue, the business may need to lay people off and make the rest work harder as well as increase the price of goods.

    Business is not like government. A business cannot shake down people, for revenue, with laws. Business cannot run huge deficits, print money or be too big to fail. Businesses will need to compete for revenue, they can't operate in deepening debt, printing money is called counterfeiting, and they are small enough to fail.

    What I think is a better idea, for giving low waged people, more opportunity, is to rotate government jobs. This can be done via placing term limits on all levels of government employment. For example, no government job, except certain positions in national security, can last more than say 8 years. The means about 12.5% of the government workforce will be up for grabs, each year. These are all good paying jobs, with benefits and some pension that will accumulate. These can be distributed, each year, with the poor and student graduates in mind.

    After 8 years, learning skills and building self esteem that comes from a good paying job, they will say good bye to government, to make room for the next class of workers. Thoese who leave, after 8 years of good pay, will be in a better position of skills, to get a replacement jobs in the free market. A rotation schema allows eight times as many people to have the America dream; at least for 8 years. What we currently pay in government pensions will be distributed over eight times as many people, who each receive an 1/8 as a supplement to social security when they retire at 67.

    Right many government jobs are often jobs for life. This is because you can't be fired except for extreme adverse behavior. The work pace is easy. Many people can do these jobs if given the chance. Currently there is no room at the inn. There is no reason most of these jobs could not be rotated, with the poor and student graduates among the first draft pick beneficiaries. There are also many highly skilled jobs in government, which will still need to be filled with the normal bidding process. These will be part of the yearly rotation.
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly...?

    You accused Bowser of avoiding the question all the while refusing to answer his question, and then you engaged a series of very dishonest obfuscations which is your custom. This isn't a difficult discussion. You were asked a very simple yes or no question.

    It may be odd, it is certainly dishonest, but it is what you do.

    CARRY ON

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