Is basic income smarter concept than a minimum wage?

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How about a national minimum(living) wage, and a minimum wage for a company based on a percentage(say 10%) of the highest paid person in that company?

 

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OK, so you were able to get through that without getting sick, without having to care for a child. Without having to retire.

Why treat other human beings that do this work as subhuman?

 

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But if you agree that it's good that when people don't have to do tasks that no one likes, why would you defend the continuation of young people performing menial tasks?

But actually, I have had my own experience with menial jobs and although I would not defend them on their wages (I do think they are exploitative), I would defend them on the grounds of providing tasks of lesser responsibility for some people who do not wish to take on jobs with more serious responsibilities. I swept floors in a factory at night and loved the time I was allowed to let my mind wonder and think of bigger things precisely because the task of sweeping floors was virtually mindless.

 

A quote from the article...

My experience is that the above amount won't go very far. That is, if your housing and basic utilities are not subsidized. I think the better trick is to control inflation. I would work for minimum wage if I could live on it.

 

what established minimum wage as being a " livable income? "

 

I lived on minimum wage for a time--many, many years ago. It's an impossible trick in our current economy.

 

something interesting from a wiki article(yes, i know it is wiki-- i do apologize for this, but it shows some significance):

The following table summarizes the arguments made by those for and against minimum wage laws:

Arguments in favor of minimum wage laws
Supporters of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

• Removes financial stress and encourages education, resulting in better paying jobs.[citation needed]
• Positive impact on small business owners and industry.[94]
• Increased job growth/creation.[95][96]
• Increases the standard of living for the poorest and most vulnerable class in society and raises average.[97]
• Increases incentives to take jobs, as opposed to other methods of transferring income to the poor that are not tied to employment (such as food subsidies for the poor or welfare payments for the unemployed).[98]
• Stimulates consumption, by putting more money in the hands of low-income people who spend their entire paychecks. Hence increases circulation of money through the economy.[97]
• Encourages efficiency and automation of industry.[99]
• Removes low paying jobs, forcing workers to train for, and move to, higher paying jobs.[100][101]
• Increases technological development. Costly technology that increases business efficiency is more appealing as the price of labor increases.[102]
• Increases the work ethic of those who earn very little, as employers demand more return from the higher cost of hiring these employees.[97]
• Decreases the cost of government social welfare programs by increasing incomes for the lowest-paid.[97]
• Encourages people to join the workforce rather than pursuing money through illegal means, e.g., selling illegal drugs[103][104]
  
  
  Arguments against minimum wage laws
  Opponents of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:
  • Minimum wage alone isn't effective at alleviating poverty, and in fact produces a net increase poverty due to disemployment effects.[105]
  • As a labor market analogue of political-economic protectionism, it excludes low cost competitors from labor markets and hampers firms in reducing wage costs during trade downturns. This generates various industrial-economic inefficiencies.[106]
  • Hurts small business more than large business.[107]
  • Reduces quantity demanded of workers, either through a reduction in the number of hours worked by individuals, or through a reduction in the number of jobs.[108][109]
  • May cause price inflation as businesses try to compensate by raising the prices of the goods being sold.[110][111]
  • Benefits some workers at the expense of the poorest and least productive.[112]
  • Can result in the exclusion of certain groups (ethnic, gender etc.) from the labor force.[113]
  • Small firms with limited payroll budgets cannot offer their most valuable employees fair and attractive wages above unskilled workers paid the artificially high minimum, and see a rising hurdle-cost of adding workers.[107]
  • Is less effective than other methods (e.g. the Earned Income Tax Credit) at reducing poverty, and is more damaging to businesses than those other methods.[114]
  • Discourages further education among the poor by enticing people to enter the job market.[114]
  • Discriminates against, through pricing out, less qualified workers (including newcomers to the labor market, e.g. young workers) by keeping them from accumulating work experience and qualifications, hence potentially graduating to higher wages later.[3]
  • Slows growth in the creation of low-skilled jobs[80]
  • Results in jobs moving to other areas or countries which allow lower-cost labor.[citation needed]
  • Results in higher long-term unemployment.[115]
  • Results in higher prices for consumers, where products and services are produced by minimum-wage workers[116] (though non-labor costs represent a greater proportion of costs to consumers in industries like fast food and discount retail)[117][118]

 

something to consider is that 90% of businesses in the USA are only small businesses.

 

um-okay-- that is fine but what established minimum wage as being a " livable income? "

 

Well, I suspect that it is arbitrary. You would hope that statistical information would be used, but I don't know that it is. My point is that the endeavor is useless if the MW is not adjusted yearly for inflation.

When you consider individual needs--housing, food, transportation--and determine the average cost for those things, I would think that a living wage could be determined. I personally believe that the minimum wage should be dealt with on a local level, since living costs differ depending on location.

 

why not, simply, endeavor into a higher paying job--(is it possible that an excuse is simply because one would have to actually do some sort of effort, rather than their lack of will to even flip the burger, but yet scream mistreatment and demand higher income?)? also what about living within ones own means?

 

Does everyone have the capacity to perform the requirements of higher paying professions? Engineers earn good money, yet not everyone can be an engineer. Also, with the export of many well-paying manufacturing jobs, many overqualified people find themselves flipping burgers. And living within ones means should allow for a home, food and other necessities.

 

ahh-- great question. so i guess that leads us too another question of, why not?

again, why not?

yes-yes--- except, why is that?

explain why then a 2k a month income family, come to find out, were living on a 5k a month income that never existed(and might i add a majority of families still are, whom work at these low paying establishments)--mainly debt. living within one's means would mean living within a 2k a month income, simple.

 

Given that we need all these low-paying jobs, why should we pay them such a low wage?

 

The variables are dependent on the individual's abilities and his/her opportunities.

Look, the federal minimum wage is 7.25 (differs from state to state.) That's 1160 dollars a month. In my community a studio apartment is around 900 a month. There isn't much remaining after you pay the rent. Also, that assumes you have a full-time job. I believe that a minimum wage is a good thing; however, I also believe that establishing such is defeated when inflation devours whatever ground you might have taken.

 

ahh yes-yes-- there is the answer. so why not increase one's abilities?

opportunity is everywhere, it is simply a matter of will and determination.

ahh-- well from your own words, it appears that you are not, simply, living within your means then, correct? and if that income does not facilitate your living, why not simply do something about it, besides whining to the manger to facilitate one's lack of will?
there are millionaires and billionaires whom have been more in poverty than what you are claim you are in, why are they still not poor?

 

i receive the impression that you are a broke teenager.

 

1) Many tasks have value as education. I don't like packing parachutes, which was my first job in skydiving. You get filthy, it takes a long time (at first) your fingers get bloody and you pick up every seed and burr from the field. But I became a very good packer as a result; I can now pack a main in 6 minutes and haven't had a malfunction in the past 5000 jumps. Thus I am glad I got that experience. I learned different things busing tables - but they were also valuable.

2) I don't "defend the continuation of young people performing menial tasks." That is entirely up to them - not to me (or you.)

3) There are almost no "jobs that no one likes." That aforementioned janitor liked his job; it gave him people to talk to and got him some exercise.

Needless to say, there are some people out there with jobs they do not like and have no value in terms of education. Best solution - change jobs. Find an employer who offers something more to your liking.

 

I did get sick, and I now have to care for a child, and even back then I knew I would have to retire. That's why I was working those jobs - to save money for college, which would allow me to make more money later. I am very glad I had those jobs, because they allowed me to afford to eat while I was getting a college degree that would allow me to get better jobs.

We should not! If you treat food service/janitorial workers as subhuman - shame on you.