Is a killer responsible 100% for their actions?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by darksidZz, Jan 28, 2015.

?

What you believe?

Poll closed Feb 17, 2015.
  1. Yes

    50.0%
  2. No

    28.6%
  3. Maybe

    21.4%
  4. Unsure

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    Religious beliefs... flat out denial or other manors of obfuscation keep those issues out of sight-out of mind for many... but i am a realist who sides wit Occam an have no need for magical-Gods that determine who deserves punishment

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    In a deterministic universe... how does one come to have "talent".???

    Yes i woud ask for... an accept a raise... which has nuthin to do wit the issue of whether or not a raise can be deserved in a deterministic universe.!!!
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    A mentally ill person who drowned ther children cause God told 'em to.!!![/quote]
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. zgmc Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    759
    [/QUOTE]
    But that person still needs to be kept out of society to protect the safety of others, even if they didn't have control of their own actions.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,798
    Why would you ask for or accept a raise if you are undeserving of it? After all, you're just following through a predetermined path. Why should you be rewarded for that?

    (That's a rhetorical question. The answer is "because you want a raise." Most esoteric philosophies don't survive contact with reality.)
     
  9. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    But that person still needs to be kept out of society to protect the safety of others, even if they didn't have control of their own actions.[/QUOTE]

    Sure... an ideally they woud be treeted wit comapssion an given treetment for ther mental issues.!!!
     
  10. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    But that person still needs to be kept out of society to protect the safety of others, even if they didn't have control of their own actions.[/QUOTE]


    Many times people ,like your example, do not understand what they are doing. That is not their fault nor is it societies fault but someone should have seen the problem that the person was having and taken them to a hospital for treatment.
     
    darksidZz likes this.
  11. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    Predetermination is just anuther thang i dont have beliefs in... an my view that this is a deterministic universe means dittly-squat to the merchant when it comes time to buy the grocerys an pay the bills... so i go along wit the people who believe that free will exists... ie... i live my life as if i actualy do have free will.!!!
     
  12. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    People do see many of those prollems... an as a society have chosen to jail them insted of usin costly treetment that woud raise taxes.!!!

    Besides... dont you thank a lot of 'em jus need a kick in the Azz... i mean... most of 'em are prolly more educated than me... but i take full responsibility for my actions an have been very successful in life... ie... if i can do it... by-God... so can they... eh.!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
  13. Sylvester Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    You obviously mis-understood what i said.

    What i said was that since 99 to 100% of people would defend themselves to the point of taking the life of an attacker then that means that they support a death penalty. A convicted murderer is alive by the mere fact that their victim could not defend themselves.

    This is the point i am bringing. Just that is dis-ingenuous to take a stand against the death penalty when you or really anyone would impose a death penalty with no considerations.
     
  14. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    The disconnect in connected to the passage of time and how memory changes. There is a saying that time heals all wounds. As the memory changes, how we view an event can also begin to change. If you have the media creating celebrity and the lawyers painting a picture of innocent boy, as the memory of the original event changes, people who are easy to manipulate, start to remember something new that was not part of the original memory.

    The family of the victims, relive the horror each day. It is hard for their memory to change since they try to hold onto their last memories of the loved one. By the time of the trial only the family is true to the original data. They need a sense of closure to begin to heal; allow memory to change.

    In real time, if most people were about to become a murder victim, and it was them or the killer, they would enforce the death penalty in self defense. This is just and fair. There is not enough time for others to manipulate the memory. Liberals lack self reliance apart from the herd. They are easiest to manipulate, which explains their collective position of disconnect. It is a good litmus test.

    I personally maintain consistency by staying true to the original facts, knowing the media and lawyers don't have my best interest in mind. I will be entertained by will reinforce the facts of the horror in the victims eyes.
     
    Sylvester likes this.
  15. zgmc Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    759
    Yes, I agree. It is a very difficult situation to deal with. The treatments are not ideal, and it is not easy to convince someone to take medication.
    Its not as easy as taking them to a hospital. If someone doesn't want to be treated they can just walk right out the door.
     
  16. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    Sometimes when people have mental problems they really do not know what they are doing or what they are doing is wrong even if others tell them so. It is very very difficult to overcome some mental health problems without help and sometimes even with help those afflicted don't take their medications for no one is there with them to see that they do. You are lucky that you can control your actions by willpower but many others don't have that ability and become worse off trying to overcome their problems alone.
     
    darksidZz likes this.
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    At one time America put those with mental disorders in state run hospitals which cared for them as best they could. About 50 years ago there was a upheaval of the mental health hospitals and they, state run, were all closed down and the people in them released into the streets wherever they lived. Closing those hospitals was done because of mismanagement and improper care of the patients and abuse of them as well. The real problem was that the state didn't want to spend that much money on keeping thousands of people under hospital care. So instead of trying to rectify the problem the states just did the easiest thing, release the patients.
     
    darksidZz likes this.
  18. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,746
    What i said was wrong... you got it right... thanks for the correction.!!!
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,798
    Yes I understood that, and I disagree.
    Again, this is akin to saying you are OK with murder because people die naturally. It's nonsensical. They are not the same.
     
  20. zgmc Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    759
    I understand this. Now, there isn't a good way to deal with people who have a real mental disorder. I have a family member who is paranoid schizophrenic. He does not want to take medication. He can be violent at times. Hears voices, ect.. There was an incident (which could have been much worse than it was), and this opened up an opportunity to have him hospitalized. I'm not sure for how long, and when he gets out, it is very possible that he will discontinue using medication.
     
    darksidZz likes this.
  21. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264

    If the person who has the mental problem won't take their medications there's little that you can do to make them do so. While there are many medications that are very helpful those that should be taking them many times think that those medications will harm them or cause other problems. There's little anyone can do besides putting them in jail for their actions especially if they are violent and hurt others. If they aren't put away they will cause more damage and hurt others which can't be tolerated. While jail isn't the best thing to have done it would be the choice of last resort if they are going to hurt others no matter who they are.
     
    darksidZz likes this.
  22. zgmc Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    759
    This is precisely the case. This thing is, even though there is a diagnosis, and the person is potentially dangerous, there is nothing that can be done until someone gets hurt.
     
  23. Sylvester Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    465
    You understand where i'm coming from. Much can be said, far beyond the scope of this thread. It just, to me, is the dis-ingenuousness of it all. I mena, after all, some countries dont support a death penalty for criminals and yet they walk right past the poor, spit right in their faces and it is just not right...the suffering and you tell me...what child, what poor child deserves to suffer in this world and i will tell you...as far as i am concerned NONE?

    But you know...it makes ya feel good jus ta say it..."hoo weee, i dont support a death penalty it make ya feel good while they (the poor, the downtrodden) SUFFER and go hungry. Of course, i dont mean you 'cause you are one of the good ones.

    But I am a Catholic and this is how we believe. It is really how i was raised to believe. Saw it from my grandma, saw it from my mother and luckily it just can never be erased. I will support every poor person i see. I have 2 dollars, i will give you one. And i love you. As Jesus Christ is our lord and saviour.

    ETA: Well, actually i am agnostic. My mom and granma were Catholic and really that is how they taught me straight up no BS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015

Share This Page