Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by HectorDecimal, Feb 15, 2012.
@HD - Followed my links? Any thoughts?
That's complete nonsense. The BB model has physical evidence and is falsifiable. The proposition of god or gods existing has no evidence and is unfalsifiable.
Actually I'm too busy building bigger guns to participate in defending the Constitution of the UNited States and the Pledge of Allegiance.
I shouldn't respond to those issues in this thread. Otherwise it is hijacked.
Now THIS thread is about me:bugeye:
The discussion you want to post that type of topic in is in the Comparative Religion area "Hubble tends to prove the Bible."
You believe in Patriotism? Nationalism? I mean, sure, happy to be an american and all, but this is just insane - no single country can survive on its own in todays' world, ergo, no country should have a special status in our minds.
:m: FREE DUMB for all!
Incidentally. We got off on a wrong foot. If this were in real life, perhaps we'd have been sharing ideas on a napkin over some java. As for what I believe, it is in human rights to freedom.
I dig John Lennon.
Imagine there's no monetary system...
I just answer the responses as seem most fitting. DIscussion over the most important issues seems to blind some people. To tell them humanity is killing itself doesn't compute to the average mind and those who stand in awe of their own wisdom must put the thuimb on top of others' intelligence. It tasks them.
I'm just a voice in the wilderness...
Well I'll just comment that if you believe that then you fail to understand the BB, the Bible and also have a poor grasp of the fundamental difference between science and religion. As would anyone else who makes such a claim or believes such a claim.
The same could be said about you. What I find sad about so many of you atheists is you lack imagination. I mentioned this in another thread about the atheist being dropped on their head as children and suffered damage to their right side posterior superior parietal Lobule. Because that being a choice option was left out of that stupid atheist's poll, I made a joke of it. Unfortunately that may not be a laughing matter. Have you ever had an NMRI head scan to see if you have damage that confuses prayer for you? If you have and all is well in your prayer area mentioned above, then did you experience some radical trauma that made you simply refuse to believe in God? For instance, some children of fundamentalist preachers, turn so far away from God, they are unreachable. Others had someone suddenly ripped out of their lives that they loved so very much and simply couldn't understand how a loving God could do something so cruel. I wept for days when the beautiful woman who sang for the rocknroll band I brought together in High School kissed a telephone pole goodbye in San Diego. I gave up on God and Jesus at times in relationship to that loss. 25 years later I understood why and it became an inspiration that sealed my loyalty to Jesus. Now I would gladly die for Jesus.
You can do all you wish to rearrange the meaning of what the Hubble or the seismographs in Wyoming bring to us to support your atheistic religion. You can mock me all you wish and try to discredit me because I see something you don't. If the Guillotine blade was decending on my neck, I'd praise Him with my last dying thought and thank Him for sparing me what you will go through.
Troll away at will...
Just another religious 'enthusiast'. Nothing new here.
Most atheists were religious before. I myself was a devout, almost fundamentalist theist, not unlike yourself. I dont think there is any conclusive evidence that atheism is biologically induced, its more of a memetic change.
I have read some of Alpha's threads and he is immensely imaginative; however, this is a moot point. Your statement is an attack on atheism (which is about as retarded as attacking non-stamp collectors); however, it does state something very clear about yourself. You value imagination more than truth, and I suspect you have never realized this about yourself.
You are now on a science site and there are many people here who value truth more than imagination. If you try to assert truth that is not really true (but a product of your imagination) then you will likely find yourself quickly marginalized. I can already see you've just about burned your bridge with Alpha, and he's a moderator. Considering how long you have been posting here, that's not a favorable start.
Trolling seems to be a religion associated with atheism, I've noticed. Likely some symptom of the inability to process prayer, which is hardwired in a normal human brain.
Then you are saying you intentionally damaged your own brain? NMR images have shown there's a specific place in a normal human brain where prayer is processed. Blocking that would require some serious psychological problems, perhaps even to a psychotic level to achieve voluntarily.
Seriously. What made you change your mind? And why would you label me fundamentalist when I clearly reject fundamentalism? That suggests an inability to process basic logic. Separation of locic and emotion is a symptom of schizophrenia. You really should have your head examined.
Look at what both you and Alpha have said. There's not a shred of imagination in either of your posts, only mean spirited rhetoric and bad rhetoric at that. If I don't see what YOU TWO believe to be the truth, I'm the bad guy. If I point something out that depicts what you both are doing is insulting or trolling, then I'm the one in the wrong and all over what is looking more and more like some form of mental disability. You both want to deny me my human right to enjoy the normal, natural use of a part of my brain intended for prayer and worship, or I must abandon my branch of science or be an outcast. That's not scientific. It's not even human. It's insane.
Any moderator that would enter his emotions into deciding about a member should not be moderating. I just mentioned that the inability to combine logic and emotion is a symptom of schizophrenia.
To become angry with someone is one thing. To become angry with them and do something to them demonstrates just such a separation of logic and emotion. My ex wife was like that. She'd be bangin the Bible one moment, then if she perceived I was doing something wrong in the relationship, the next moment I'd get kicked in the nuts, spat on or hit in the face and I'm a gentleman who is very tolerant. It turned out, yes, she's schizophrenic. Back then I didn't know the symptoms, but I was just an engineer supervising a welding team in a fab shop, while erecting signage on the side. That's over 20 years ago.
The fact is, I'm the first to admit I'm eccentric, but that doesn't make me a bad engineer or a bad scientist. If you look outside my posts on theistic stuff, you'd see I have a very keen and IMAGINATIVE scientific mind in the modern sense. You guys are so insistent that I just couldn't be onto something and so willing to quash anything pointing to a deity that you can't see the scientific know-how. Neither of you has looked at the CAD modeled designs in the engineering area. Doing those faceted designs is painful and I wrote the software to model them.
I've used my skills to design something that might save the lives of you and your children someday. You are spitting on my skills. How dare you?! HOW DARE YOU?!!
Of course schizophrenics usually stay in denial most of their lives till they have a serious psychotic break and hurt someone. Nobody has to tell me what damaged them, but if you can't use that inborn facet of your brain, then I recommend you just TRY talking to a psychologist about that, then a minister. Get a couple different opinions beside your own self diagnosis. If you go on hurting people in cyberspace, it will become habitual and sooner or later it will manifest itself in real society.
We are all fanatics to some degree, but I've managed to get beyond the jealousies of the scientific profession. Why can't we all just get along?
Firstly you have no idea what I or anyone else here do or think beyond the tiny amount of interactions you've had with us. Since you like to call both my imagination and scientific understanding into question I'll point out that it is literally y job to come up with novel solutions to scientific problems. It's how I put food on the table and a roof over my head.
I've never believed in god or gods. I live in the UK and my parents are atheists, both of whom work in science related areas. I've never had any brain injuries or the like.
It sounds to me like you're trying to give yourself an excuse as to why people disagree with you. Rather than think that the position atheists have has been reached through the application of logic, reason and evidence, you're trying to convince yourself it's due to brain injuries. That simply doesn't add up in the face of evidence. For example, the proportion of atheists in a population goes up as the educational level goes up. The fraction of college graduates who are atheist is higher than the general population. It gets even higher as you go to post graduates and then to academics in science. If your logic were sound it would mean the vast majority of the scientific community happens to have had brain trauma at some point which managed to block their belief but also enhance their scientific abilities. Hardly likely now is it?
The other excuse you make, the "I'm angry at god so I'll turn my back on it" one, is also laughable. Some of us never believed. And many people who used to reached their current position through thought and rationalising, not some emotional snap reaction.
It might be hard for you to understand but there are people who understand your beliefs, know about the claims of your religion, have read about it and still don't buy it. I know you want to kid yourself, to think that anyone who doesn't believe must surely not have all the information or some brain injury or some personality disorder, but that simply isn't the case.
You keep calling atheism a religion. Is not believing in Bigfoot a religion? Is saying "I don't believe that" a religion? Atheism has no dogma, no tenants, no rules on how to behave, nothing other than a single stance on a single subject, the rejection of the claims of "God or gods exist".
You say 'troll away at will' but I'd say you're the troll here. You've been a member here less than a week and you've already trolled multiple threads, misrepresented people and positions and concluded multiple people have brain trauma and need to be checked for schizophrenia.
You seem to have made a mistake in reading what I said.
I have not said "God or gods do not exist". I said that it's irrational to believe in them. There's a difference. Saying "I believe X does not exist" is a stronger statement than "I do not believe X exists". The former asserts something, the latter rejects someone else's opposing assertion. Without sufficient evidence for X the default and rational position is the latter, the rejection of the claim X exists. I reject the claims of all religious people that their deity (or deities) exists. I am not asserting those deities don't exist, I'm just rejecting the claims of others that they do.
As for the literal nature of the Bible, that's another question. The claims of the Bible are demonstrably false. Kings 7:23 says pi=3.0. (30 cubits in circumference, 10 in diameter, when the nearest would be 31, not 30). The account of Genesis is contradicted in Genesis. The age of the Earth is not 6000 years. There was no global flood. The way Man is spread across the Earth has nothing to do with the tower of Babel. The genetics of Man shows we didn't all descend from Noah or Adam (ie a small group less than 10,000 years ago). Various cures for diseases given in the Bible are nonsense. And as for the moral rules, well they are laughable. I bet your don't take an unruly child to the edge of town to stone them to death? Or how about myself, I'm making a case for rejecting your faith and therefore, according to the Bible, you should put me to death. People laud over the 10 commandments yet few can even name them all and even fewer follow all 10. Why is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" number one on the list yet there's no "Thou shalt not own another human being" isn't even in the 613 rules which follow the main 10? In fact the Bible explicitly says you can own another human being, to have them as your slave. You're allowed to beat them to the point where they can die and provided they don't die immediately you did no wrong. Anyone who takes these are 'good moral guides' is, in my opinion, not only immoral but fundamentally lacking in empathy. You accuse others of being schizophrenics yet I'm just applying basic logic and methodological rationality to this stuff. Anyone who takes the Bible literally and as unquestionable is a psychopath because they have failed to realise the impact of their actions on other human beings.
Where did I say anything of the sort? I said the Bible, taken literally, is nonsense. If you want to have faith then okay. You're still being irrational for believing something without evidence but it's better than believing something contrary to evidence, which is what literal belief in the Bible requires.
I'd much prefer everyone ditched their religions entirely but a more reasonable first step would be to stop being a part of organised religion and just having personal faith. That would get rid of a lot of the dogmatic nonsense.
I'm being rational, the belief in something in the absence of evidence or worse, contrary to evidence, is irrational. I don't need to be emotional here. In fact, emotions only cloud the issue when people say things like "Oh I can feel god" or "He touched my life". Sorry, not buying it.
Where has anyone 'done' anything to you? I haven't 'done' anything to any theist, beyond just ask them questions. I go to a philosophy class each week and there's a few religious people there and we have back and fores about their belief but that's as challenging as I get. I live in the UK, which is much less religious than the US, and I work with a group of professional scientists, none of whom believe in the supernatural. I rarely interact with people who are overtly religious. I was honestly surprised to find out some people in the philosophy class were religious, the last time I interacted with such people face to face on the subject of religion must have been a decade ago. That's how little impact religion has on my day to day life.
So because someone you knew had a psychological issue you're extrapolating it to all atheists or non-believers? Nice fallacy.
I haven't seen you show much understanding of the scientific method. And you've got plenty of faulty knowledge about particular bits of science. Besides, you're complaining I'm doing to you what you're doing to me, given what my job is.
Artistic ability is irrelevant to your claims. Creativity is irrelevant to your claims. Some of the greatest scientists in history have been theists but that doesn't make the argument more valid or sound. Some of the greatest artists have been atheists. You're showing how little you understand the scientific method if an attempt to justify your position is "Look at my CAD designs". I got to an art class (yes, as well as a philosophy one) and the best artist in the room is a physics postgrad student. So?
I've written software to model the thermal interaction between dust and rocket exhausts. Does that make my position in regards to (a)theism more valid? Not in the slightest.
Wow, either you're a troll or you're the one with 'issues'. No one said anything of the sort. And you're not the only one whose been involved with things which could one day save lives. Doesn't make either of our positions more valid. What matters is reason and evidence and you have neither.
Are you projecting? You seem obsessed with psychological disorders and you have no problems with just misrepresenting people. Brain trauma and schizophrenics seem to be a bit of an obsession for you. That and how you ended a post with the clearly angry "How dare you!!" makes me wonder, is there something you want to tell us?
* * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * * *
HectorDecimal has been given a warning for insulting other members. I personally have cited Jung's work on archetypes to argue that an irrational belief in the supernatural may be programmed into our brains by our DNA, which would make it very difficult to overcome. However, some of us (including my entire family) appear to have lost that gene and are quite happy and well-adjusted, having been born and raised without religion.
There's no reason not to suppose that some people who were raised religious were also born without this self-destructive, antisocial pathology, and therefore are more healthy once they have been taught to discard it, or once they have learned to shed it by themselves.
Considering that the ranks of atheists are steadily growing, this suggests that either:
A. This mutation is being selected for and a genetic drift is taking place, or
B. A great many people who hold illogical antiscientific supernaturalist beliefs do not do so naturally and were merely brainwashed by their parents, and are more easily able to shed them in today's intellectual climate.
Hector has been warned that this is a place of science and supernaturalism (the belief in an invisible, illogical supernatural universe from which creatures and other forces whimsically and often cruelly interfere with the operation of the natural universe, falsifying the underlying premise of all science that the natural universe is a closed system whose behavior can be predicted by theories derived logically from empirical observation of its past and present behavior) is not held in high regard. To insult someone personally for not being religious--no matter how torturous his path to this state of enlightenment--is an egregious violation of the forum rules and will not be tolerated.
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