interstellar travel

DragonMage
Thank you for your reply. I assure you I am no scholar. As for gravity magic, I don't see it, I don't know anything about it beyond what I have read on the boards, but it sounds hinky to me.

As for what I am proposing it's fairly simple, although the reasoning behind it is fairly complex.

WHAT IS IT?
It is the formation of a gestalt being with advanced potentials.

WHAT DOES IT DO?
Depending on the number of people in the gestalt it can, act telepathically, act telekinetically and finally it can Teleport both itself and a load.

HOW DOES IT WORK?
A group of people, selected for their talents, arrange themselves in a prescribed pattern within the confines of a generated field for the express purpose of combining their innate selves into a larger sapient self.

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Bxmkr

 

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I couldn't get into www.boblazar.com, it has some sort of password encrypted entry... Can anyone tell me how to get in there because I am interested in hearing about this man's experience.

-Double Overdrive

 

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Hey Bxmkr (how do you pronounce that?

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)

Neat-o idea, but perhaps first we should try to figure out if telekinesis and telepathy are even possible? Being a neuroscience student, I would suggest that neither is a capability of the human brain. (Or any brain for that matter).

 

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It is a small, but hardly disastrous, pity that many posters have not done a little elementary research on that which seems to interest them so much. A nice, well-written entertaining little paperback is Robert Forward's "Indistinguishable From Magic".

There, you'll discover that antimatter can indeed be safely transported around the world in a suitcase-sized, battery-powered contraption called a Penning Trap. Nothing goes "boom". Not a single anti-particle - for months on end. It's a handy gadget.

Re. space elevators: the problem, as someone mentioned, is in the implementation. It's a materials science issue. I wonder if anyone here will become the next generation of great chemists? The prime candidate currently is the nanotube or buckytube, whose basis material is pure carbon, rolled into a tiny tube 10 nanometres or so in diameter. This is the strongest "rope candidate" yet discovered. Searching the web for "nanotubes"
will uncover a wealth of information. The current problem is making them longer than a few hundred microns. That's not going to even get you up on the kitchen table.

People have already exposed Mr. Bob Lazar as a fraud. I presume some people just didn't hear the news, which is now rather dated - as is Lazar's erstwhile fame. But the analyses are to be found online if one is curious.

 

To Doubleoverdrive:
What I'm more scarely is that US got high tech and army power, and no country can balance it up. But as Plato said this's not the political forum so I'll not argue any further. I just found this website and you guys really impressed me. All of u have such good comment, idea. So I might come to visit this website quite often. But isn't that a good idea to be more careful what u gonna post besides of physics idea.

 

To Boris,

Boris, I am a carpenter and cabinet maker, one day it occurred to me that what I do is largely make boxes, hence 'Bxmkr' sometimes I'm a 'Brdmkr', Other times I just put sawdust back together, which is very difficult because not all those saw dusts come from the same tree.

It would seem that telekinesis and telepathy have been around for centuries, we have just been unable to plumb the depths of their mystery.

Congratulations on your status as a student. What is neuroscience?

In this particular case it is my view that the 'preferential will' acts directly upon quarcks (notwithstanding their somewhat unsettled status).

Again, I have nothing to prove here. I am just a man with an idea. I think it will work. I have lots of reasons to think so. There is a lot of work which needs to be done. I cannot do it alone, nor do I wish to.

At one time, a thousand years ago, men and women saw an ocean of water and were curious about what it was and what was out there. They built boats and sailed on that water. Eventually they figured it out and sailed to the other side of their world. Some lived, some died, some were right and some were wrong, but they did it. Those who proclaimed it could not be done were right, for some it could not be done.

The question is not whether it will work the question is "How does it work?"




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Bxmkr

 

ChuckesA:

The Penning traps may be safe for months. But what happens if a plane accidentally falls on one?
There's always a possibility of catastrophic failure. And while with nuclear reactors/weapons you can shut the reaction down, or disarm the weapon for example, there's no equivalent for antimatter. If for some reason containment is lost, ka-BOOM. So with respect to antimatter propulsion, my position is: forget it. If you really do want to do it, then move anything and everything that has to do with antimatter off this planet, and far away onto some isolated station. I want none of that shit in my backyard, pardon my French.

Bxmkr:

Neuroscience is a study of the nervous system, and primarily the central nervous system (aka the brain). The field of inquiry encompasses everything from the particular chemicals (neurotransmitters) used for communication by neurons, to the complex chemical machinery inside the cells, to the various classes of neurons and interactions between groups of neurons, to large-scale information flow among functional 'blocks' of the brain, to filtering, processing, and integration of sensory information, to generation of movement and thought.

Thought == activity of neurons in the cerebral cortex. A few billion cells getting agitated and suppressed, sending electrochemical messages to each other along trillions of connections. The system has no more capacity to affect anything 'telekinetically' than the circuitry in your computer. It's only cells my man, just plain vanilla cells.

 

Boris

Several dozen scientists at Princeton university are in disagreement with you. Their experiments with thousands of people during millions of trials demonstrated incontrovertably that the volitional will is a statistically validated phenomena in a scientifically controlled environment. They do not, however, know how it works.

For myself, I am not a scientist, I am a carpenter. I do not prove things, I build them. Telling me that I can not build something is pointless, unless you wish to exclude yourself, I'll just go find those who think that there might be some way and we will go do it.




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Bxmkr

 

To ChucklesA,
Do you know any good sources to find out more about tether technology? I've only seen a little from what I've read in scientific magazines. My memory may be faulty on this, but wasn't an experiment to see how long a tether in space would last using a simple configuration that involved simple materials, the result being it lasted months or maybe years longer than expected? As an astronomer pursuing about to start a graduate career in planetary science, I see tethers as the first of many ways we're going to gain access to the solar system cheaply, so I'd love to learn more.

And let's not rule out antimatter propulsion just yet. Sure it may be unreliable now, and somewhat dangerous, but so was nuclear fission 50 years ago. The Penning trap is reliable, and I think will be even more so once we get to the stage of putting it on space craft, but that's a ways off untill we can find a way to produce more of it.

As for the gestalt idea, it seems a little too far fetched to me. Even if ESP, telepathy, and the like exist (which I think would be great, but I've never heard of any conclusive proof of it. Who are the Princeton scientists? Where can I find their experiment written up and has anyone else reproduced their results? That's the real question) we have no understanding of the basics, let alone something as complex as this. Until I can see otherwise, the "plain vanilla cells" theory is correct. This does not mean you can't convince me otherwise, but I need to see proof first. But don't be discouraged. The "wierd theory" of today could be the vital inspiration of tomorrow.

 

Steve, I have nothing to prove, nor would I prove anything even if I could. I am not a scientist, I am a carpenter, I build things.

I posted this message not in the hopes of finding people who would believe (I am not looking for believers) but rather in the hopes of finding people who, in the words of Bertrand Russell, "Are willing to find out."

As a courtesy, and nothing more, I will tell you that the telekinetic experiments (not ESP or telepathy) were performed at the "PEAR" Labs at Princeton University in New Jersey.

I will not be discouraged, it is not courage which I lack, it is company. All the courage in the world does not make up for a lack of self-realized minds capable of forging a path into the future which is not predicated on some extrapolation of the science which has come before. This is the very nature of discovery, it discovers.

The weird theory of today is not the vital inspiration of tomorrow. The vital inspiration of today is just that, vital inspiration, some may call it weird. Yeah, right Newt, things fall down, good thinking there.

Newton did not invent gravity, he postulated its existence. Nor is it necessary to prove it, it is a phenomonen whose consistency attests to its existence. What we know of it is resident in its action upon material and energy, we still don't know what it is.

What I propose is that the preferential will acts directly upon matter at the sub-atomic level. I also have reason to believe that the preferential will of an individual is several orders of magnitude slighter than the preferential will of an intelligently organized group. Such an idea is, in and of itself, quite rational and certainly no more far reaching than the concept of gravity.

I hope this clarifies some things about what I am doing. I appreciate your reply and look forward to hearing from you in the future.



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Bxmkr

 

To Steve, re. where to find tether information:

At the risk of sounding blindingly condescending, have a shot at

http://www.tethers.com

 

Bxmkr:

Wait... Don't tell me... You are a carpenter! You build things!

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See, I learn fast.

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Seriously though, I'm not saying telekinesis is impossible in principle. But for the life of me I can't figure out how it could reasonably be accomplished with the tools we have available. For example, being a carpenter you could hardly put together a wooden rocket to take us to the Moon, right? Well, in the same vein of thought, it's rather hard to see how the brain could affect something at subatomic level, when all it has to work with are chemical gradients within its cells.

Also, in many of those ESP/telekinesis studies, the results turn out to be 'statistically significant', but only in the sense that they are only slightly above noise. I have never seen a study on these issues where the effect was just plain conclusive (which is different from being statistically significant). And, you know, as Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Finally, for every scientist at Princeton who would support your conclusions, there are hundreds whose opinion I represent here. But of course, we could all be missing something; it wouldn't be for the first time

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Which actually brings to my mind a certain possibility. Richard Feynman (who was a physicist, but ended up meddling with practically everything) proposed an intriguing theory of mind. This was before the modern boom of neural networks, and it did capture some imaginations. Basically, he noticed that neurons have very complex shapes, supported by intricate cellular scaffolding. The interesting thing about this scaffolding is that it consists of intertwined tubules, similar in geometry to carbon nanotubes. The quantum fields established inside those tubules could, conceivably, interact with those of other tubules, propagate along these tubules at speed of light, and in general perform some kinds of quantum computation. Now, I don't think anybody actually tried to empirically verify these hypotheses (which would be incredibly difficult) -- but there may be something to it after all. But anyway, if the brain in fact has a quantum component as opposed to being merely an electrochemical machine, then maybe through somehow resonating or modulating the quintillions of quantum interactions within it, it could affect other quantum entities outside of it. Of course, the theory is pretty far-out, and I wouldn't hold my breath, especially given the extremely slim evidence.

So there you go, my final 2 cents.

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I am; therefore I think.

 

Thank you for your words, Boris.

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Bxmkr

 

Aloysius,

Doh! I always forget to look for that painfully obvious solution. Thanks.

Bxmkr,

I didn't mean to imply that you had something to prove, more that I'd like to see for myself what those people at Princeton you were refering to had to say, what their methodology was, etc. That was in no way to put you down.

 

Steve
thanks for your note.
Yeah, I'd like to know more about the "PEAR" studies myself. I've tried to contact them but to no avail.
From what I've heard they rigged up some psychics and some regular people to a computerized random generator and told them to influence the outcomes of several million events and then recorded the results. The exciting thing for me, here, is that most everybody they tested,(psychics, regular people, dogs, whatever) showed statistical evidence of having influenced the damn test. Something was going on, I have enough respect for Princeton University to take their word for it. Now that is not to imply that I would not like to know more about the details and judge for myself, but I don't feel inclined to dismiss it offhandedly. I mean, I don't have any education, I'm just a dumb carpenter who wants to build a spaceship.

Again, speaking soley for myself, I think that it can be shown that the "preferential will" acts directly upon matter at the sub-atomic level. It just might be that 'will' is a different thing than thought. I know this sound a bit peculiar but stop and consider for a moment just what Newton did, he didn't invent gravity he discovered it. More precisely; he postulated the existence of a constant factor within his world which nobody else,(apparently), had thought about, at least enough to consider that it might be an extant existent thing which could be measured and calculated. It was just not part of their world. People must have thought Newton was very wierd, indeed! Yeah, right Newt, things fall down, "yur gonna fall down ya don' getoutahere widat shit."

Time for my nap, talk to you guys later,



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Bxmkr

 

overdrive6 if the government is working with aliens, it is not for the american people it is for a darker purpose. you can bet the chinese know about it and so do all major world powers

 

overdrive6 if the government is working with aliens, it is not for the american people it is for a darker purpose. you can bet the chinese know about it and so do all major world powers

 

The best way to travel the stars, is by a little property when you combine atoms. The so-called "fizzle" effect. Some scientists in Germany, France, England, and the US have observed a strange anomaly in fusion reactions. This anomaly does not work with the "Einstienian" physics. They propose that if you could send a large enough charge through a fusion reactor while it is working, then it would produce a fold in realspace. In effect, going from one point in space to another by bypassing light. The scale that these "fold" generators would have to be built on, we could possibly take the moon to where we need to go. Though getting to the moon and building it would take a few hundred years at least, so they have proposed a small shuttle-sized craft to make the first fold by 2035 aprox. Does anyone know of the game "Battlepace"? The science in that was bassed off those propositions. In conclusion, we could be to Proxima Centauri within the next 50 years.

The gestalt being is plausible, but where are we going to get that many people? Are we going to test all the people of the world? That would be too time consuming. That would take 75 to 100 years to acomplish. The fusion "fold" is more within our grasp.

 

To: The_Sage

Thank you for your reply. In regards to the number of people to attain a working gestalt, I'm thinking that 4, 6, 8, 12, or 20, would be sufficient. As for testing, well, the prospect of testing people for suitability to be part of a gestalt implies that some rare, special, quality of being is out there if only we could find it. That is not what I have in mind. The advanced evolutionary potentials inherent in a gestalt being emerge because of the very nature of the situation, much like the properties of water. No amount of examination of the properties of oxygen coupled with a similar examination of the properties of hydrogen could ever lead one to a knowledge of water. More importantly, it is not necessary to require any water like behavior from oxygen or hydrogen in order to get water. Neither must we first test for water like properties in oxygen or hydrogen to get water like properties in water. In a similar vein, we do not need to search for a particular quality in people in the hopes that when we combine them the quality will somehow become magnified. The qualities that people have already are quite sufficient to the task, we need but combine them intelligently.



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Bxmkr

 

What about the "fold" hypothesis??