Insight from Asian Genes......

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by TruthSeeker, Jan 21, 2006.

  1. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    IMHO, (and what Darwin himself said) isolation between two parts of a gene pool does promote their divergence, eventually leading to two groups that can no longer interbreed with fertile off springs so you are basically correct here. However, even in one interbreeding gene pool, there is both slow random drift and, to the extent that the environment itself is changing, an adaptive, non-random selection or “driven drift“.
     
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  3. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    i couldn't really see references on the page that the link gave. I guess I have to guess the sources. Could all be a work of fiction.

    'blacks' can also excel in long distance running.
     
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  5. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Huuummm...
    I can see that they mature slower and that they have larger brains and higher IQs, but is they are less fertile and less sexually active, why are there so many of them?

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    It always puzzled me. Japanese, for example, have a very crowded home. Yet, they are known to have little... well, you know what...

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  7. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Well, what I basically inferred from my observations is the hypothesis that if you have two groups of the same pecies, one of which not migrating and the other migrating to a different environment, the one that migrates to the different environment will change accordingly while the other group will not change or change very little overtime.

    The other hypothesis was based on that. I hypothised that the chinese were isolated millions of years ago, while other "monkeys" were more free to come and go. So those evolved in a different way that the chinese evolved, and the chinese, therefore, preserved many of those old genes. (Of course they also changed, but their changes were less significant because they did not change environments- that is, they weren't forced to adapt to different environments).
     
  8. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Do you know humans only evolved once?
     
  9. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Who said that? God?
    If He said that, I trust Him.

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    Yaba Daba! :m:
     
  10. J.B Banned Banned

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    What is the one time?
     
  11. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know if that's true. What about those tiny 3 foot tall people they found near Indonesia? ...and Neaderthals? There were many species of humans on this planet.
     
  12. firecross Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    People carry different forms of the CYP2A6 gene, and this is more pronounced in particular parts of the world. “It seems that there’s more variation in this gene in Asian populations,” says Sharon Murphy of the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, US, who has studied nicotine metabolism.

    Researchers in Tokyo decided to compare how different forms of the gene influenced the cigarette consumption of 200 Japanese people aged 50 or over who smoked 20 cigarettes (one pack) or more each day. The scientists found that roughly one-quarter of the participants carried two copies of the normal form of the gene, CYP2A6*1 and that these people smoked the most – almost two packs a day on average.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8628
     
  13. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Homo sapiens then.
     
  14. blankc Your superior Registered Senior Member

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    F***ing hilarious! This guy posts an innocent and naive commentary on perceived racial differences, and possible evolutionary causes for them, and gets instantly blasted with full fury!

    You humanists are incessant...

    Also particularly ironic is that both sides are "anti-racists"! One side is of the "we should all breed into one type, mixed people are better" , the other "there is no types". Both equally wrong! Both are the PC positions pushed by sociologists, the government, and the media, both are crafted to accomplish sociological goals and ussually don't conflict, but it's hilarious when they do like now!

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    What was that JB guy banned for anyways? Talking out against dogmatism?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2006
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Why don't you try reading his posts? Then you'll know.
     
  16. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    How was it naive? It was a slight tweak in Darwin's evolutionary theory...

    Actually, both types are right, they are just two different perspectives.
    But my point was that diversity is evolutionarily efficient.
     
  17. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    If true that the Chinese were more isolated than other groups then I would tend to agree with you, but I have no reason to believe that to be the case. Why do you?
    Turning the argument around, one could note the very great difference between African pigmies and the tall Watusi and conclude they were isolated groups so geographical barrier to inter mixing of gene pools clearly are only part of the story. Cultural factors are important also. For example, the Jews have been dispersed all over the world, but the genetic disease Tasack is found almost exclusively among them. (Sorry about the wrong spellings)

    My point is that it is hard to define isolated groups independent of the fact you want to conclude about them. There is a great danger of circular reasoning here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2006
  18. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I read one of his posts and it certainly is not PC, but there was at least citation of references and numerical values that can not be due to cultural effects, such as the frequency of twins and brain volume measurements etc. for the three main racial groups. I think that the correct response is not banning but showing these "facts" to be wrong, if they are. There is a new thread called brain volume which tends to support some of these facts.

    I have great respect for Hercules Rockefeller's knowledge in biology and he was very critical of JB's post, but perhaps Hercules is just being PC. So I asked Herculus in my post addressed to him of 24 Jan at 12 past the hour to refute a least some of the "facts" claimed by JB. Thus far, Herc has not done so. If JB was banned for the post reproducing and citing:
    www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/jpr_insight.html
    Then I think you have both acted too hastily and perhaps unfairly. Lets get some counter argument about the "facts" first.

    I was banned else where for starting a thread to speculative about the possibility of a small undetectable object (small black hole, old neutron star etc.) passing close enough to the solar system to perturb planets, so I a sensitive to arbitrary banning and think correction of errors, if there are some, is the better course. (The moderator of that forum simply knew it never happen and could not.) Einstein and his “Jewish physics” were once “banned” by formal declarations of 100 German scientists. He was not "PC" in Nazi Germany.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2006
  19. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    The biggest mountain in the world is between China and India. The toughest desert in the world is between China and Russia. China only has easier access to Korea and Japan- and they need to either swim for a while or build boats to go to Japan. Besides, China was largely colonial-like and dependent on small farmers for most of its history. Only in the past 100 years or so, China has been changing.


    Isolation is only one factor. If those two groups have always been in war, for example, chances are they haven't had many chances to interbreed.

    Absolutely. I never said geographical isolation is the only one. In fact, I always stress that every issue has countless numbers of factors. It's just that some factors often influence the issue more then the others.

    They have been all over the world only for a few years (notice "few" here means between a few thousands to a hundred). It takes millions of years for interbreeding to change a distinct group of people enough ti not make them as distinct as before.

    I agree. What would you suggest?
     
  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    to TruthSeeker:
    I think we are in basic agreement. You are correct that, except for some islands, China has strong natural barriers, but they are not very closed to migrations etc. on the time scales you yourself suggest.

    For example, Gingus Kan with a policy of killing the men and raping the women all the way to Hungary has left an easily detected set of genes in the populations his warriors passed thru.

    In addition, I seem to recall that the name for Vietnam is derived from Chinese, and means, "lower Kingdom" (China referred to its self as he "central Kingdom.")

    On the 10s of thousands of years time scales, deserts and mountains do not do as much as culture, IMHO, but I agree, they contribute to isolation of gene pools. Mountains and deserts are sort of like a strong chain with some weak links. - Even with them on your time scale, there is mixing of gene pools, especially if raiding parties of men are part of the culture and slaves are taken back home, etc. as they just go thru the "weak links of the chain."

    Also you might want to consider birds. Many share the same space, no physical barriers, but “culture” (what they happen to think sexually attractive, appropriate mating rituals, etc.) has produced the great variety we see.

    As for how to avoid circular reasoning, I don’t have a clue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2006
  21. iam Banned Banned

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    You have a common one-track mind and an inability to think outside the box. This is not necessarily so. Evolution needs "resources" only. It does not necessarily need paul from africa and jenny from europe to get its job done. That is as absurd and stupid as saying chinese food is not real food or as nourishing because it is not italian, french, etc etc. Chinese have evolved the way they have because of their environment and resources and it blows your theory smack out of the water because they have been doing "exceptionally" well compared to what you refer to as 'genetic diversity'. You are being racist and prejudicial towards asian and not only that but insinuating and implying that asians are not as 'evolved' which is a pathetically slimy and stupid observation from you significantly because closer to the real truth is that it is probably the other way around! Did you say that you were brazilian??? Of all the "races" on this planet, the overall hispanic population are known to be a combination of all three races, negroid, caucasoid, and mongoloid but no one in their right mind would consider them at the top of the human food chain? So why is this? What's the excuse according to your brilliant theory and brainpower? lol, I guess just because a whole lotta this and that is thrown into a pot its not necessarily going to turn out better? huh? Do I detect a bit of jealousy turned into nitpicking and condescension to compensate. You should be ashamed of yourself. How about an analogy of the daimond. I think its fitting.

    Boast not of an art you know nothing of. Comprende
     
  22. shadowpuppet Registered Senior Member

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    anyone else here asian? anyone else find it a bit infuriating to be compared to an orangutan?

    just you know, pointing it out. We smell better than white people though.
     
  23. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    What are you talking about? My ideas are completely outside the box. What do you suggest? Postulate that we come from aliens? :bugeye:

    Aha. How intelligent. So what does "resources" mean in your little mind? :bugeye:

    Oh reaaaaaally!

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    This is a ridiculous analogy that has absolutely nothing to do with whatever I said.

    What are you talking about?

    That's silly- I'm obviously the very opposite.

    I never insinuated they are less evolved. I said they have evolved in a different way, that's all. What I'm doing is encouraging diversity. Racist people discourage diversity as much as they can. I do the very opposite.

    You are retarded. The food chain has nothing to do with this discussion. The food chain hasn't been an accurate measurement of human evolution for millenia!

    Your brainpower is not much greater then a parasite's.

    Well, that's evolution. And it is proven. How about you give any evidence of the crap that is coming from your mouth.

    Looks like the jealousy is coming from the other side of the screen.

    You should be ashamed of posting such pointless and ridiculous post in the internet! You haven't done your homework. Please go away and don't come back until you actually have evidence. In fact, get an argument before you get any evidence, genius!!

    Yes. You cannot find a diamond by a road. So, you, for example, are far away from being anything close to that.

    Oh, wow! Sounds so Shakespearian! You are a genius!
    I ran out of rolleyes a long time ago...
    You are such a pathetic teenager! Incredible!
     

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